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Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
31 Comments - 47898 Views
^as above^
Submitted By supermarinespitfire on 10/06/11
Mars Explorer, supermarinespitfire, Community 
This Discussion originally posted in the "Mars Explorer" Group

Mars has a quite basic social pyramid; there are very highly respected plays that almost everyone knows. Next there are there is another class of those who are very well known and respected, not completely, but partly due to their modeling or map making contributions. There is then a large class of pretty well known and respected players who are well known for sharing ideas and discussion or for contributing models of worlds or vehicles (I believe this is the class I belong to). Fourth there are the newbies, and lastly there are the noobs (I apologize for omitting various sub-classes in an effort to keep this more simple).

 

This structure is good in a way because most newbies want to eventually become a respected player. But in can also lead to the creation of noobs, because:

 

Martians do not all get equal treatment. You might say people should have to earn the right to be a treated equally. But new players don’t understand that, they just think your being unfair.

 

Currently on mars we have a wonderful moderation system that cleans the forum of spam- sometimes the mods are so efficient a noob is banned from mars before you even knew he existed, the only problem is; I’ve noticed status is usually taken into account- if not even consciously, when threads are being hidden. When someone of higher status posts something irrelevant it is usually overlooked but a post that is slightly off topic from a new player usually has his post hidden or is asked to hide it. This is probably because it is much easier to (and my even gain you respect among some players) to tell a new player to hide his post if it’s slightly irrelevant than to take a risk and ask some whom probably knows better than you anyways to hide his post. I am not innocent to this. Though some people have spoken up against people of higher status it takes “a great deal of courage to stand up to ones enemies, but a great deal more to stand up to ones friends”-Dumbledore. An example of people overlooking irrelevant posts (not to point fingers though) is lovepugs post “I’M BACK” which if posted by someone else of lower status would have been ask to be hidden quite quickly (not saying she didn’t have a right to tell us she was back but she could have done it more subtly). Many newer players have protested this saying, “how come you hid my post, and not this guys post, his is much less related to mars!” In fact it should be the newer players, not the old owns, who are given a break when it comes to ill-related posts, the old owns should know better than the new ones.

 

I’m not saying having respect is bad, I think it’s very good, but people should give out a certain level of respect to all players even if they’re new. Many people have made posts like this before (for example flyclub made a bunch on respect which I recommend you read if you have not already) but I thought I’d bring it up anyway. Gtr34 makes awesome stuff but would anybody accuse him of downloading them from the internet? NO. But champion was accused, and told he was a disgrace to the 3D community by the latter (in the defense of Gtr34 he did say that he was a disgrace IF he did this, and he wasn’t the only one too), without one bit of evidence other than that he was fairly new and had a name that was the same as someone else! Respect also includes giving people the complete benefit of doubt, if you can’t prove they did something, don’t accuse, it will turn what was otherwise a potential part of the community into an angry noob. By not treating people fairly when it comes to posts can also do this.

Also just because you are right doesn’t mean the other person sees you as right.

 

We must have the courage to do what’s right and be fair even at our own cost (and I’m not saying I’m perfect, I probably need to work on this as well).

 

Thankyou for taking the time to read this long post,

 

Supermarine Spitfire

» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 9:45 GMT
Great post, one that everyone should read
 
i go agree with you with what you are saying in the post
 
i thinks it's time we wake up and watch our actions
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 hours - 453v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 12:35 GMT
I completely agree!!! The people that are more well known are MarsXplr are treated better than the less well known. 
 
 
Another Example:
One Post Gtr34 made (No offence to GTR) a temporary goodbye post and most people were just fine with it, but if anyone who was not as well known as GTR made the post, it would have been hidden in a heartbeat. 
 
P.S Great Post!!!!!!
 
 
-Wafflez
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
3 days - 10,293v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 13:52 GMT
I agree man. Its a great social pyramid we have here but lets not make the newcomers feel like peasants. In the game, I refrain myself from calling people noobs, (with 2 exceptions).
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
5 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 14:42 GMT
I totally agree!
 
Though, lovepug's post is a social thing, more that an equal rights thing. SOme people don't want to hear people they don't know announce to them, that they are back. That's just life.
 
However, for posts, such as my "Mars unrelated" post serve as GREAT examples of this paradigm. 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 24,924v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 16:40 GMT
GREAT post, Supermarine! I totally agree with this post. Completely.
 
The point is sharp, too! (LOL) but seriously, we need to realize how we are treating others.
 
"All men are created equal" - Declaration of Independence.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 days - 6,410v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 17:52 GMT
This is a very genuine post, I agree with it completely. There are a lot of deliberations made impulsively, and only taking into account those we know. I think the whole lot of us (including me) should try to take a fresh look at the concept of ''noobs,'' ''newbies,'' and even respected players. 
Fact is, everyone IS an equal here, and I think lots of us often succumb to being a bit harsh uneccesarily. 
 
As you noted (this is my variation) newbies/noobs are sometimes used as a commodity that can be toyed around with. For instance, two friends are in a full server with a group of newbies. Suddenly, another friend comes to join them, but (as said before) the server is full. The hosts have no trouble just evicting an unknown without the least explanation.
 
In short, there IS a complex we should all work on fixing. I have been harsh on occasion, and I've watched others be harsh. It's something present everywhere in real life, but this isn't the place for it. Hopefully a good post like this will help. 
 
Thanks, 
  ~Alex
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 days - 7,304v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 19:43 GMT
I for one completely agree on your statement. All the newer people who join mars and post something that
 
is relevant and some people say it's spam and hide it. For example Flynn (no offence Flynn) but he posted a
 
post that just had a picture of a tank on it. That doesn't have anything to do with mars. Yet did the
 
moderators hide that post? No, of course not they where afraid they would get in trouble with Flynn. Flynn
 
may have said it's "unbamable" but I saw it was bammed quite a few times. 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 21:47 GMT
 
@supermarinespitfire - In my opinion, this pecking order or social pyramid you speak of is not so much based as you say on respect but on trust. Trust is naturally gained by being around longer. That's the breaks man. It's about trust.
 
As policy, many of us mods PM a polite explanation of why a post was hidden or resolved to the creator of the post.
 
Regarding Flynn's post, I suggest (for the zillionth time) that members of the community get involved and PM Flynn your request that he take it down. He's contributed immeasurably to this game and forum and I feel he's earned some slack for his goof post.
 
Regarding Luvpug's post - there is current discussion amongst mods about how long to leave "I'm back" type posts up and it's currently hovering around 3 days.
 
And finally, if any members would care to increase moderator pay from the current $0.00, please let us know how we should scan the forum, hide rotten posts, resolve answered posts, develop and implement anti-spam code and spend our personal time to PM each other to discuss procedure and fairness policy in order to meet your exact specifications more satisfactorily while you play the game, work on world creation, ride your bikes or mmnom.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 24,177v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 0:18 GMT
*Agree*
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/11 - 23:23 GMT
Good post!
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
4 days - 9,839v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 0:46 GMT
@Kruncher, I did not say mods were bad, I said I thought they were good, and I understand what your saying, it is about  trust, but a new player doesn't understand that someone who's contributed alot to the community deserves some slack, all they see is that their post got hidden and someone else's did not. I understand you guys do a lot of work and I respect that. It is a volunteer position though. I am just trying to say that by not treating people fairly will create more problems in the future, called noobs.
 
Also I do not want to scapegoat GTR34, I was just using him as an example.
 
Thankyou to all mods for your excellent work, even if it can never be good enough to please everyone.
Supermarine Spitfire
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 24,177v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 1:26 GMT
I think both Kruncher and Spitfire are right here.
 
On the one hand, Kruncher is right because moderators do hide posts due to the user. But if that user is a respected member of the community, and has contributed a lot, then you CAN cut them a little slack.
 
On the other hand, Spitfire is right in that newbs DO deserve a little more slack than we give them, which is about zero. EVen if they do have to live up to their part of the bargain, as it were, we can be a little more admitting for the probing new player.
 
Overall, as long as we hide the posts that need hiding and leave the ones that seem to be alright, I think we can be alright.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
12 hours - 917v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 2:39 GMT
I feel sad now I don't go here much and seems no one remembers who I am, so i don't think I'm on the social ladder any more. I will go back in to the mist of what is and what was mars explorer.
 
<0>
 
 
                                                                       -_- clan forever
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 4:41 GMT
Just knock it off neon, would you? geeze! With "the clan" already!
 
 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
3 days - 10,628v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 12:15 GMT
I'm pretty sure that's not neon...
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
3 days - 10,628v
Posted 2010/06/12 - 12:14 GMT
Kruncher is right, do not think that lovebug's post has been overlooked, it sparked a discussion among the mods and will set a precedent for all posts that are slightly irrelevant, but not spam.
 
They are to be given 3 days, regardless of status.
 
I do completely understand what you mean, the lower level mods are afraid to hide anything made by someone in a higher caste than they are.  This leaves basically Kruncher who can moderate anything.
 
Basically, i think I am guilty of it, but the moderation system as a whole is not.
 
I do think, as an example, many of Flynn's posts are irrelevant, but no one would dare hide them...
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 day - 6,320v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 0:38 GMT
I just had a sudden urge to blast everyone who I thought was doing this to me in my worse days, but I withhold.

Supermarine spitfire, very good post. Remarkable and very to the point.
-aeo
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 24,177v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 1:56 GMT
Aeo, when you were in your "worse days," you weren't a newb finding his way. You knew at least a little of what you were actively causing....
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 weeks - 18,835v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 1:23 GMT
I think everyone should read this all the way through. No skimming.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 2:09 GMT
Agreed Fai.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 day - 6,320v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 2:20 GMT
Tiger, I have fully recognized what I have caused in the past. I never specifically referenced myself as a newb.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 2:21 GMT
@super - My rant was general purpose and not directed specifically at you and please read my quote from my above comment.
 
"As policy, many of us mods PM a polite explanation of why a post was hidden or resolved to the creator of the post."
 
I often hear back from people who's post status was altered and I take the time to explain what's what on the forum and how they can post usefully. I am saying there is a ton of stuff going on behind the scenes that if people knew about it, they would know that newbees are being treated better than ever regarding the forum. Newbees also benefit from their unacceptable posts being taken down quickly in that massive flaming doesn't happen.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 days - 7,304v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 13:00 GMT
Kruncher I believe that you are treating all the new guys with respect and politely PM them. The only problem is that people who aren't mods don't know what is happening behind the scene. If we knew more what the mods are doing I'm sure people would respect them all the more.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 day - 6,320v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 13:50 GMT
I like that idea, Jim.
But, i'm not too sure if one or all of the mods would be able to explain, if there may be a monumental amount to explain, the mods could leave it as is and hope all others trust them in their works.
 
-Aeo
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
4 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 16:53 GMT
All mod activity that I'm aware of is described in my comments on this post.
 
Funny how respect for mods was the hijack here.  lol
 
Now, can we steer back to supermarinespitfire's subject please?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 24,177v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 17:51 GMT
Hoi! Do NONE of you except the moderators have the moderator log link? Go there, then go ahead and second-guess our decisions.
 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 week - 16,790v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 17:58 GMT
Can I be the popular blonde girl that rules everything :P

hai people I normally don't go on here bit I grew about the class thing I notice it too. But you all just gotta see that welp there really isn't a point in caring who's popular and who is not popular on the video game that we play. Cause well all leave one day and it won't matter.

love Yea!!!!!!!!
Renny* who isn't at hone ATM ;)*
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 day - 6,320v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 19:09 GMT
Come to think of it, I believe the treatment is adequate to all players. I see no need to revise the mod system or social pyramid, because you cannot adjust the social pyramid by 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, or even 30 people. You need a lot of people with the same idea, a lot of time, and motivation.
 
-Aeo.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 day - 3,527v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 22:27 GMT
Very, very, VERY good post spitfire!  You forgot three classes though!  One: People who have disappeared.  Two:  People who don't play that much but hang around the forums and sometimes contribute worlds and comments. (perfect example = me :P )  Three:  Aubrey is the wise, just king (if viewed in a feudalistic manner)!  :D  Speaking of which, has anyone seen Aubrey lately?  It seems that nobody's heard from him in a while...  Anyways, adios!
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
2 weeks - 18,835v
Posted 2010/06/13 - 22:48 GMT
Did you read the part about him not including various sub-classes?
 
Aubrey has a life. He's working most likely.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Equal treatment to explorers of Mars
1 day - 3,527v
Posted 2010/06/14 - 12:11 GMT
Sub-classes:  Whoops, didn't see that!  Sorry!  :)
 
Aubrey:  Oh, no, I know that.  I'm not one of those people who are like "RAWWR!  I WANT NEW STUFF ADDED AND I WANT IT NOW!"  I was just wondering, because the lack of communication from Aubrey has been a little longer than most times.  Ah well, there's other stuff for me to do.  :)


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