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Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustainable
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Our social healthcare is broken, but what the heck, let the Americans try it.
Submitted By bigdog on 10/03/22
FreeHovind, bigdog, Ideas 
This Discussion originally posted in the "FreeHovind" Group



News article from Canada's 'Toronto Sun News.'
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/2010/03/12/13214251.html

Our health care system is not financially sustainable
By Mark Rovere

Last Updated: March 12, 2010 8:14pm

The light bulb has gone on and the Ontario government has finally realized that the current method of financing health care in this province is not sustainable.

In the recent throne speech, Premier Dalton McGuinty warned if serious reforms are not implemented soon, health spending will consume 70¢ of every provincial dollar spent in 12 years. Not only would this increase government rationing of health care services, it would also crowd out other critical public services.

This looming crisis shouldn’t come as a surprise to the Ontario government. On average, over the past 10 years, health care spending in Ontario has grown by 7.3% annually, while the province’s total available revenues have grown by just 5.6%.

Things are even worse if you look at more recent trends. Between 2008 and 2009, Ontario’s health care spending grew by 4.5% while the total available revenues decreased by five per cent. If this one-year trend continues, Ontario will be spending 50% of its total available revenues on health care by the end of this year.

We can no longer continue to pay for health care through public means alone. If we want to avoid continuing to pay more and getting less, the province needs to allow the introduction of private sector sources for financing our health care services.

There is a misallocation of medical resources in Canada because the supply of health care services does not reflect demand. Instead, resources are arbitrarily allocated to fit within government budgets. It’s absurd to suggest governments can keep raising taxes to pay for health care and continue to make patients suffer through long wait times by denying timely medical services.

In the throne speech, McGuinty said: “Patients will have greater choice about where they can access the best quality treatment.” However, he failed to explain how this would be accomplished.

Although discussions regarding “patient-based” funding or “activity-based” funding for Ontario hospitals is a move in the right direction, as competition will improve the quality of services provided, it is not enough. Allowing people to purchase private health insurance in a competitive insurance market and allowing for-profit and non-profit health service providers to compete with public providers for the delivery of publicly funded services is the best way to significantly improve the availability and sustainability of Ontario’s health care.

Rational approach

The government could also make people more responsible for their own health care by making patients pay for a portion of their health care services. This would force individuals to take a more economically rational approach in using the health care system. A recent public opinion poll by the Canadian Medical Association suggests that most Canadians are willing to consider just that.

On March 8, the CMA released an Ipsos Reid poll on the economics of Canadian health care. It showed 59% of respondents across Canada agreed the current method of financing health care is not sustainable. Of those, 46% agreed that “patients should be responsible for paying a portion of the cost (of) health care they receive;” 32% agreed “governments should raise taxes to cover the cost of health care;” and 22% agreed governments “should cut spending on other public services such as education and transportation” in order to continue paying for health care services.

It’s clear most Canadians agree health care funding is in serious trouble and are willing to pay privately to ensure their medical needs are provided.

Ontario’s Liberal government has an opportunity to introduce meaningful reforms.

It’s time ideological resistance was pushed aside and rational economic reforms realized.

— Rovere is a senior policy

analyst in health care

for the Fraser Institute. Source: http://www.torontosun.com/comment/2010/03/12/13214251.html


» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustainable
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/03/22 - 22:38 GMT
i was wondering about that. canada's healthcare system i mean. so if all the rich are going to pay for it then they should pay for free internet too for all the poor and middle class since they're all stuggling. make that car insurance too. how are we going to get to work when we have to drive far in the big cities now a days?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 15:45 GMT
i was wondering about that. canada's healthcare system i mean. so if all the rich are going to pay for it
 
Everyone pays for it, that's what taxes are for. 
 
they should pay for free internet too for all the poor and middle class since they're all stuggling.
 
Many cities *already* have free, public internet access - not to mention the projects to bring high-speed internet access to rural areas. 
 
make that car insurance too.
 
Actually, it almost came to that in one province when auto insurance rates rose several hundred percent within a year or two. I'm sure there were some "good Christian conservatives" around to decry all of those examples as "OH NOES SOCIALISM," but fortunately we weren't stupid enough to actually listen to them.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 2:29 GMT
Compare petit chien's title:
 
Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustainable
 
...with the actual article:
 
The light bulb has gone on and the Ontario government has finally realized that the current method of financing health care in this province is not sustainable.
 
In other words, either your title is a lie - or you're too stupid to tell the difference between the province of Ontario and the entire country of Canada.
 
Rovere is a senior policy analyst in health care for the Fraser Institute.
 
Someone from a conservative think-tank being critical of a Liberal premier? Ooo, there's a shocker.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
4 days - 5,621v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 4:33 GMT
quote from wiki:

Toronto is at the heart of the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), and is part of a densely populated region in Southern Ontario known as the Golden Horseshoe, which is home to 8.1 million residents and has approximately 25% of Canada's population.[3][4][5] The census metropolitan area (CMA) had a population of 5,113,149,[1] and the Greater Toronto Area had a population of 5,555,912 in the 2006 Census.[

That's the heart of canada. I think the rest speaks for itself. By the way, I don't argue with ignortant perverts like you that talk on forums like these below. You're a sick person. (http://forum.freehovind.com/view-6695) (http://forum.freehovind.com/view-6407) (http://forum.freehovind.com/view-6823)
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Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 6:27 GMT
"That's the heart of canada. I think the rest speaks for itself."
 
BS
that's like me decribing australia by only describing the big cities.
 
"By the way, I don't argue with ignortant perverts like you that talk on forums like these below."
 
"run away, run away [scenic melody]"
 
at least next time try to hyperlink them.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 16:48 GMT
That's the heart of canada.
 
...and? You haven't come anywhere near demonstrating that even that portion of the Canadian population agrees with the opinion you posted.
 
I think the rest speaks for itself.
 
A politically-motivated editorial, written by a member of a conservative think-tank, and published in a newspaper known for its conservative (small and large C) leanings? Yep, that does speak for itself.
 
By the way, I don't argue with ignortant perverts
 
Ah, so no sick or ignorant perverts for bigdog - only intelligent and healthy perverts need apply.
 
like you that talk on forums like these below. You're a sick person.
 
So you consider those posts objectionable, yet you have no problem calling people "perverts", "rude homosexuals", or making unfounded accusations of pedophilia?
 
 
Interesting set of values you got there.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/03/23 - 13:13 GMT
For once, BigDog is partially correct.
 
Even though some areas of this document are questionable, 
Canada's health care system, is indeed, not financially succeeding.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 0:09 GMT
Even though some areas of this document are questionable, 
Canada's health care system, is indeed, not financially succeeding.
 
The system does have its problems, although they have been vastly exaggerated by the conservative political rhetoric that's been coming from the US in opposition to the attempts at reforming their healthcare system. The underlying premise seems to be "no public healthcare is better than a public healthcare system with flaws."
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 0:14 GMT
Oh, and for a look at what Canadians ACTUALLY think about their healthcare system:
 
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Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 4:18 GMT
video inside canada care.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 7:39 GMT
wel, hospitals tend to be more strained if everyone can go to them,m except for the ones who can pay or nessecarily must.
 
...he actually takes a swing at the WWF,
WHY?>?////
btw, people are NOT flocking to the US, they flock to cheap asian clinics.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/03/24 - 18:34 GMT
Before watching: Fox News, seriously? The Sun is a partisan rag, but it's practically the London Times compared to Faux News.
 
After watching: both Hannity and his guest make sweeping generalizations based on a what appears to be a sample size of one hospital and one or two clinics. There are some serious omissions too, like the fact that the Canadian health-care is primarily managed provincially, not federally - and within Canada, Ontario's healthcare system is particularly known for having problems (the "documentarian" almost certainly would have had a different experience in other provinces).
 
And even with that one particular experience, they don't compare it to the typical quality of free healthcare you'd get in a comparable American hospital.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/04/19 - 6:50 GMT
so do u really believe this will make healthcare a better quality and fincially sustainable?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/04/19 - 19:04 GMT
"so do u really believe this will make healthcare a better quality and fincially sustainable?"
 
and the health of the people isn't important?
THAT is what this is about ronnie.
healthcare for all.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Canada Says Their Own Healtcare System is Not Financially Sustaina
1 day - 2,617v
Posted 2010/04/19 - 22:07 GMT
e-mail from my aunt in minnesota: this is a letter from the Mayo clinic to their employees and the public.

After careful consideration, Mayo Clinic has joined the majority of eligible hospitals in deciding not to participate in "Coordinated Care Delivery Systems" program under Minnesota's new General Assistance Medical Care (GAMC) law. General Assistance Medical Care is a state-funded program for low-income residents who do not qualify for federally funded health care programs.

Mayo will continue to care for patients on General Assistance Medical Care as always. Emergency care will continue to be provided regardless of ability to pay. In addition, Mayo is working with Olmsted County and with community nonprofit agencies currently offering care to General Assistance Medical Care patients to ensure that they will continue to receive care.

Saint Marys Hospital and Immanuel-St. Joseph's in Mankato, Minn., were two of 17 Minnesota hospitals eligible to participate in the Coordinated Care Delivery Systems program. Reportedly, only two to four hospitals of the 17 eligible Minnesota hospitals will participate in this new program, all those hospitals in the Twin Cities metropolitan area that receive extra funding under the new program.

The Coordinated Care Delivery Systems program reimburses providers at a fraction of true costs, and is an unsustainable model to provide appropriate care to these patients. Under the new payment model, hospital reimbursement would be reduced by almost 40 PERCENT over current levels.

As with Medicare, this new program fails to address the true problem: payment for value and patient-centered care. Government payment systems must change to create incentives for doctors and hospitals to offer the highest quality care at the most reasonable cost, thus increasing the value of health care.

Mayo will continue to advocate for payment reform at both the state and federal levels so that patients covered by government programs have access to needed health care.

Mayo Clinic remains committed to providing care for patients in need. Each year, Mayo provides $70 million in charity and another $140 million in uncompensated care. Mayo will continue to provide charity care benefits to patients who are determined to need financial assistance.



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