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So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
23 Comments - 63735 Views
Submitted By DrWorm on 10/01/24
FreeHovind, DrWorm, General 
This Discussion originally posted in the "FreeHovind" Group

My guess is "yes."

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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 7:11 GMT
Again, more trash and really low points being shown by yourself.
 
 
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
9 hours - 765v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 17:46 GMT
Get over it.  Mr. Hovind is a crap human being.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 18:06 GMT
You're also a crap human being for posting some of your recent threads.
 
Creationists aren't evil, they're humans beings like you and I.
 
 
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 18:40 GMT
"Creationists aren't evil, they're humans beings like you and I. "
 
and so are serial killers, so were hitler and stalin, ghandi and moa.
 
great goodness and great evil lies within all humans.
 
what we consider evil is based on what morals characteristics we value.
 
and i consider deliberate dishonesty, willfull ignorance, and biting the hand that feeds you all evil.
 
 
thedude.
do you have any idea how many people will die and suffer if creationists actually fully controlled the states?
even now the thought of seeing someone like pat robertson at the button chills me to the bone.
 
if you listen to what they advocate and if you think they seriously adhere to that, you can be sure to find some pretty "evil" things there.
 
that is unless you consider the OT "humane".
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
6 days - 8,777v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 18:51 GMT
"that is unless you consider the OT "humane"
 
Those rules were for the old Jewish society, which was quite different and therefore required different rules(to an extent). Also, in the old testament the Messiah had not come, so more rules were required concerning sacrafices, priestly duties, etc.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 19:08 GMT
"Those rules were for the old Jewish society"
 
so i guess that i can now not keep the sabbeth holy and still live?
 
btw, jezus had nothign on slavery.
and no, don't even try to use the excuse "but back then slavery was different" . i studied roman society, i know what slavery entailed and what position it held back then.

" Also, in the old testament the Messiah had not come, so more rules were required concerning sacrafices, priestly duties, etc."'
 
so jezus his coming and sacrifice negated all the bad stuff in the bible?
 
and we shouldn''t (Deuteronomy 12:2-4) (Deuteronomy 20:17) (Deuteronomy 25:19) (Deuteronomy 25:5-6) (Deuteronomy 22:29) (Deuteronomy 24:1-4) (Numbers 35:22-29) (Numbers 15:30-31) (Exodus 22:1-4)(the bank sector will love that one)
and lets not froget.(Deuteronomy 4:2)'
 
ect.

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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
6 days - 8,777v
Posted 2010/01/25 - 23:19 GMT
"so i guess that i can now not keep the sabbeth holy and still live?"
 
We still need to keep it holy. When Jesus came, He explained that the Jews had taken it to an extent that was never intended; "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."
 
"so jezus his coming and sacrifice negated all the bad stuff in the bible?"
 
I was actually talking about rules concerning sacrifices and the like, but i can see how you misunderstood it. I will answer what you meant by the question:
We see certain rules as bad because our society and the old Jewish society are so different; they require different ones(to an extent). For example, in certain societies showing the bottom of your foot to someone else is as bad as "shooting the bird", so you would refrain from that.
 
I really dont want to explain every single verse you gave, so i will explain the first three.
 
Deuteronomy 12:2-4 was talking about the conquest of the Holy Land; you take it out of context. Look at verse 1: "These are the statutes and judgements which you shall be careful to observe in the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you to possess, all the days that you live on the earth."
Therefore, verses 2-4 were talking about how Israel was to punish the nations that occupied the Holy Land for their sins by driving them out of their land and occupying it themselves, thus fulfilling God's promise to Abraham: Genesis 17: 8: "Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
 
The same goes for Deuteronomy 20:17; Israel was to punish the nations that occupied the Holy Land for their sins by driving them out of their land and occupying it themselves, thus fulfilling God's promise to Abraham.
 
Deuteronomy 25: 19 was punishment for how Amalek did not fear God and deliberately attacked Israel when they were weary (Deuteronomy 25: 17-18: "(17)Remember what Amalek did to you on the way as you were coming out of Egypt, (18)how he met you in the way and attacked your rear ranks, all the stragglers at your rear, when you were tired and weary; and he did not fear God."
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/26 - 10:54 GMT
""For example, in certain societies showing the bottom of your foot to someone else is as bad as "shooting the bird", so you would refrain from that.""

yes i know that, i've lived in arabia and asia.
but that stuff won't get you killed. or even put into prison for.
it's just considered disrepectfull.

the OT however dictates very clear and severe punishments for these kinds of "crimes".

"The same goes for Deuteronomy 20:17;"

the one where god tells them to "utterly destroy" all the foreigners?
you understand that's just genocide right? the jews didn't just kindly ask them to leave.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
6 days - 8,777v
Posted 2010/01/27 - 1:24 GMT
"but that stuff won't get you killed. or even put into prison for.
it's just considered disrepectfull."
 
of course, but i was just making an example of how different societies require different rules.
 
"the one where god tells them to "utterly destroy" all the foreigners?
you understand that's just genocide right?"
 
God is omniscient, He is just, and He gave the orders; those nations were fit for their punishment, evidently.
 
 "the jews didn't just kindly ask them to leave."
 
Do you really believe that they would have left? 1 nation against many, and the races that made up those nations were larger, taller, physically stronger, etc. than them; the jews winning the wars are a testimony to God's omnipotence.
 
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/27 - 11:55 GMT
"of course, but i was just making an example of how different societies require different rules."

then your comparison fails, because in punishment (severity) these offenses aren't the same. it's like compairing shopliftign to a mugging gone bad. or marajuana to herion.

"God is omniscient, He is just, and He gave the orders; those nations were fit for their punishment, evidently."

then your god is not all loving and compassionate.

you realised you just spoke against the version of god given in the NT , so you could justify the OT.

if this is your god. then you belief in one malicious sadist.

because for him being an omnipotent (if you think he is) being, he could have dealt with this a LOT mroe humanely.

"Do you really believe that they would have left?"

no, i would have thouhgt they could have coexisted, but had god interviened himself directly in the issue, instead of going around "hardening harts" (like he want them to die instead of reaching a treaty), he could have doen it with 0 casulties, HELL he could have solved all the issues in the beginning.

"1 nation against many, and the races that made up those nations were larger, taller, physically stronger, etc. "

unfortunetly that's not really a novel issue with history.
most of the tiems the people where absorbed in the conquering society, instrad of beign completely annihalited.
it's MUCH more economically feasable to enslave and coexist, then it is to exterminate them.
why? because you lose a lot of human resources that way.

" the jews winning the wars are a testimony to God's omnipotence."

or of shrewd planning.
if you haven't thought about that, you clearly are poorly educated in the stratagies of war.

you can beat an army of 100 000 with 10 000 men, if only you planned right.
how do you think the taliban are still fighting their gurrilia war agaisnt the US? they aren't stronger or more numerous or better supplied.

they have the homefield advantage and THEY FIGHT HIT AND RUN.

or perhaps....maybe the jews embelished the stories to make em seem more herioc? perhaps they didn't even drive all the people off themselves? how much do you really know about the historical situation in judea at the time?
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
6 days - 8,777v
Posted 2010/01/27 - 23:42 GMT
"then your comparison fails, because in punishment (severity) these offenses aren't the same."
 
There are different things in different societies that have different severities. I know my comparison fails on the severity level, but i couldn't think of another comparison.
 
"then your god is not all loving and compassionate."
 
God is just and He punishes, but being just does not mean He has no love or compassion. He gives people time to repent, and punishes them if they have not repented. Don't forget John 3:16!
 
"you realised you just spoke against the version of god given in the NT , so
you could justify the OT."
 
The Old Testament God and New Testament God are the same. If you think that the Old Testament God is harsher, read Acts 5:1-11(an example of God's harshness in the New Testament). Also, read the story of Jacob in Genesis chapters 26-28 for an example of God's love in the Old Testament. (read through 37:1 if you want to, which finishes the main story of Jacob.) Throughout history, God has been omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, just, and loving, among other things.
 
"if this is your god. then you belief in one malicious sadist."
 
God does not derive pleasure from inflicting pain on others. He loves everyone and does not like to see them sad, but since He is just, He must punish. 

"because for him being an omnipotent (if you think he is) being, he could have dealt with this a LOT mroe humanely."
 
He is also just, so He must execute punishments in the degree of humaneness that the people are deserving of.
 
"i would have thouhgt they could have coexisted, but had god interviened himself directly in the issue, instead of going around "hardening harts" (like he want them to die instead of reaching a treaty), he could have doen it with 0 casulties"
 
God promised Israel the land. The people occupying that land were sinful. God gave them the punishment they deserved while fulfilling His promise. 
 
 "he could have solved all the issues in the beginning."
 
He did. We had paradise. Adam and Eve ruined it by sinning; all of us would have done the same.
 
"most of the tiems the people where absorbed in the conquering society, instrad of beign completely annihalited.
it's MUCH more economically feasable to enslave and coexist, then it is to exterminate them. why? because you lose a lot of human resources that way."
 
God gave them the appropriate punishment. Perhaps other problems would have arisen if Israel enslaved them.
 
"or of shrewd planning.
if you haven't thought about that, you clearly are poorly educated in the stratagies of war. you can beat an army of 100 000 with 10 000 men, if only you planned right. how do you think the taliban are still fighting their gurrilia war agaisnt the US? they aren't stronger or more numerous or better supplied."
 
Maybe Israel did plan shrewdly, but it is not likely because they had little to no war experience at all. I know God did have a part in it because of miracles such as, but not limited to, prolonging the day to let Israel finish a battle and confusing the enemies so that they attacked each other.
 
"or perhaps....maybe the jews embelished the stories to make em seem more herioc? perhaps they didn't even drive all the people off themselves?"
 
That is a Biblical validity issue.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/28 - 13:00 GMT
"God is just and He punishes, but being just does not mean He has no love or compassion. He gives people time to repent, and punishes them if they have not repented. Don't forget John 3:16!"

that would be the mob boss.
"i won't break your legs if you pay me in time"

"The Old Testament God and New Testament God are the same."

to put it ina simpsons' quote:
"Vengeful god, loving god. Vengeful god, loving god."
somewhere i think the NT misses all the genocide god commanded, when they called him agape

"Also, read the story of Jacob in Genesis chapters 26-28 for an example of God's love in the Old Testament. "

oh yes.
i'll make anyone suffer to win a bet.
nice gods there. do you even see the insanity in that?

"Throughout history, God has been omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, just, and loving, among other things."

no he is not.
why? because that is completely inconsistant.
if god was all these things, then he KNEW that the fall was gonna come, that means he set us up to suffer because he KNOWS when we will repent and when we wont (omniscience). and soemone who sets you up to suffer isn't loving, and certainyl is not just.

and don't come to me with that crap of "you can't judge god because he's god", because that's just a lame excuse to not see the brutality on his acting.

"God does not derive pleasure from inflicting pain on others."

well he certainly loves to inflict pain over solving the problems nicely.


"The people occupying that land were sinful. God gave them the punishment they deserved while fulfilling His promise. "

then WHY did he have to kill them?
why not forgive them and relocate them? why not forgive them and let them mingle with the jews?
WHY did he have to annihalite them? oh that's right, because in the OT he's NOT the god of forgiveness of the NT, but the vengefull macho god. the one who in all his justice decides to order children to be massacred.

riiight, you keep digging your hole there.

"He did. We had paradise. Adam and Eve ruined it by sinning; all of us would have done the same."

example A for jaweh rigging us to suffer to his knowledge.

"God gave them the appropriate punishment. Perhaps other problems would have arisen if Israel enslaved them."

....do you hav eany idea how incredibly inhumane that was what you just wrote?

"perhaps we should punish the palastinians like like the jews did then, certainly god would agree".

THAT'S the kind of reasoning you can get at if you keep up defending god brutality like this.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
6 days - 8,777v
Posted 2010/01/29 - 0:46 GMT
"that would be the mob boss.
"i won't break your legs if you pay me in time""
 
God is just, so his punishments are fitting, unlike the mob boss.
 
"if god was all these things, then he KNEW that the fall was gonna come, that means he set us up to suffer because he KNOWS when we will repent and when we wont (omniscience). and soemone who sets you up to suffer isn't loving, and certainyl is not just."
 
My theory is that, (if people are not sinning if they don't know what they are doing is wrong,) God, in the beginning, set us up in the best way possible; He gave us 1 rule: to refrain from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (so that we will not know if we are doing good or evil.) God gives people a choice to do right or wrong, and punishes for the wrong. That does not mean that God set us up to do wrong. Besides, what other way do you think God could have done it? People are always sinful.
 
"then WHY did he have to kill them?"
 
That was the punishment!
 
"Why not forgive them and relocate them? why not forgive them and let them mingle with the jews?"
 
They were not repentant. Also, mingling with the Jews probably would have caused some of the Jews to worship the other nation's gods. This is an example of God avoiding setting them up to sin.
 
"isn't loving, and certainyl is not just."
 
God gives us good chances to repent and avoid punishment(love). If we deliberately do not repent, He punishes us(justice).
 
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/29 - 8:29 GMT
"God is just, so his punishments are fitting, unlike the mob boss."

that's the standard excuse.
same as "you can't judge god".
following that you can justify almost anything in his name...
say, do i hear an "allah ahkbar" over there?

""God gives people a choice to do right or wrong, and punishes for the wrong. That does not mean that God set us up to do wrong. ""

it DOEN is he's omniscient, BECAUSE HE KNEW WE WOULD CHOOSE WRONG.
or better yet, he gave us curiosity and then w8ed for us to eat the apple.

also you theory doesn't fly, because there are several examples of god ordering the killing of enfants, enfants who have yet to recognise the distinction between right and wrong. and then also take into account that god is the biggest abortionist of them all and the picture becomes even worse.

""Besides, what other way do you think God could have done it?""

simple, not give us the urge to eat from the apple. opr at least forgive us like he's reported to do in the NT, and let us live in paradise again. if he's omnipotent, then it should be no problem for him to completely fix all our wrongs and then have us live in bliss, whoreshipping him all the way.

""People are always sinful.""

so you're saying god is flawed....gr8.
weren't we made in his image? didn't he know what he was doing?


""That was the punishment!""

so the punishment for a finite transgression has to be a brutal death, followed by eternal torture....gr8. nice equation.

""They were not repentant.""

eh, HELLO! omnipotent god remember!?
he can just have them convert.


""Also, mingling with the Jews probably would have caused some of the Jews to worship the other nation's gods""

or he could have MADE THEM INTO JEWS.

""This is an example of God avoiding setting them up to sin""

just like when he ordered the men to "take all the girl who had not yet lain with man, but kill all the men"?

""God gives us good chances to repent and avoid punishment(love). If we deliberately do not repent, He punishes us(justice)."""

do you not see the blatant hypocracy in his "love"" there?

why would a loving being need to punish? when his omnipotence could just fix anything.

the question "why doesn't god heal amputees?" comes to mind....
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
6 days - 8,777v
Posted 2010/01/29 - 23:22 GMT
"simple, not give us the urge to eat from the apple."
 
God gave us many other trees to eat fruit from. God said that humans would die if the apple was eaten; I think that would be a dissuasion.  The snake gave Eve the urge to eat the apple through temptation. 
 
"opr at least forgive us like he's reported to do in the NT, and let us live in paradise again."
 
Then we would sin again, and there would by a cycle.
 
"if he's omnipotent, then it should be no problem for him to completely fix all our wrongs and then have us live in bliss, whoreshipping him all the way."
 
That would be unjust. we are forgiven if we repent.
 
"eh, HELLO! omnipotent god remember!?
he can just have them convert."
 
To be forgiven we must repent, out of OUR choice.
 
"so you're saying god is flawed....gr8. weren't we made in his image? didn't he know what he was doing?"
 
No, im saying we are flawed. Originally, He created us in His image, but our image may have changed due to sin.
 
"or he could have MADE THEM INTO JEWS."
 
And that is a punishment how? The punishment was to die, not to become a part of God's people.
 
"so the punishment for a finite transgression has to be a brutal death, followed by eternal torture....gr8. nice equation."
 
The punishment for sin is death. The punishment for unrepentance is hell.
 
 "there are several examples of god ordering the killing of enfants"
 
can you give the verses?
 
"why would a loving being need to punish? when his omnipotence could just fix anything."
 
to be just.
 
do you not see the blatant hypocracy in his "love"" there?
 
Are you saying that you can't be both loving and just?
Jesus died on the cross so that we could be saved. Imagine how humiliating it is to be omnipotent, omniscient, etc. and let puny humans nail Him to a cross, and having full knowledge of it beforehand. That is love, if there ever was.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/30 - 15:10 GMT
" The snake gave Eve the urge to eat the apple through temptation. "
 
the point is god made eve temptable AND HE KNEW IT WAS GONNA HAPPEN.
 
"Then we would sin again, and there would by a cycle."
 
ehm, OMNIPOTENCE?!?!
he could fix that little sin problem.

"That would be unjust. "
how would it be unjust to let us live in bliss if he loves us so much?
 
"we are forgiven if we repent."
 
right, now let me try to explian how this sounds to me.
 
someone walks up to em and sais, "HE! you sinned and now im gonna break every limb in you body, UNLESS you grovel on the floor and ask me forgiveness!"
then i will ask: "but how exatly did i sin??"
he replies: "because i siad so!"
 
THAT is the entire message the bible puts forth. now HOW am i goign to take it seriously if im not brainwashing in indeed thinking he has the right and the power?
 
"To be forgiven we must repent, out of OUR choice."
 
and if we don't WE GET TORTURED FOREVER IN HELL!
WHAT kind of choice is that?
NO ONE will choose that.
that's not even a free choice, that's a forced choice.
 
"He created us in His image, but our image may have changed due to sin."
 
so he created us in his image, including the ability to sin, ergo god himself is capable of sinning.
so you are sayign god is suseptable to sin himself.
 
or he manually CHANGED us so he could have us sin. knowing we would, condemming us to ect.
 
"And that is a punishment how?"
 
it's not punishment, ITS FORGIVENESS.
you know the kind of thing he is supposed to do accordign to the NT?
 
"The punishment was to die, not to become a part of God's people."
 
so even if i do repent, god could stil slay me and burn my ass in hell?
if he wasn't willing to forgive those people, why would he be willing to forgive me? and WHY did he w8 so long to send jezus then? what made him change his mind?

"The punishment for sin is death. The punishment for unrepentance is hell."
 
so next time you work on sunday (or more accurately saturday) christians and jews have the right to kill you? or next time you whorship god on the cross  (graven images ay).
 
"can you give the verses?"
 
oh...HOW ABOUT THE NEWBORNH OF EGYPT!?
come on, you read the tdam thing too, you should have read em too.
 
“Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.”
 
or Psalms 137:9
and yes i read the context. not very forgiving that.
honeslty, you can know there are more verses that clearly demonstrates god lack of mercy for kids that aren't "his people's".
 
"to be just."
so god is vengefull before forgiving?
 
"Are you saying that you can't be both loving and just?"
 
yes, if you use the temr for "just" that you are describing god here, i will indeed say it's impossible.
 
why? because a lovign being would never consider eternal torture for a finite crime, just. it's completely disproportional.
 
"Jesus died on the cross so that we could be saved."
 
and why not BEFORE jezus ey? WHAT made god change his policy on "foregiveness"?

"Imagine how humiliating it is to be omnipotent, omniscient, etc. and let puny humans nail Him to a cross,"
 
actually i would find it hilarious if i where god.
why? because i kenw it was goign to happen, and i knew it was dying as a sacrifice to myself so that i myslef could FORGIVE those why nailed me up, so i gave them a loophole so i didn't have to kill and torture then for all eternity if they made  alsight transgression in their complex, hectic and confusing lives.
i would find it even more hilarious when they paint my closest accoplace in the whole thing as the biggest betrayer.
 
if it wasn't for judas, HOW ELSE WOULD I DIE SUCH AN INSIRING DEATH?!
 
"That is love"
 
no, that's needlessly complicated and useless, because he doesn't stand to lose anything BECAUSE HE IS PERFECT.
and you cannot harm a perfect being.
 
"if there ever was."
 
what would be love is if he instantly forgave all our sins, solved all our problems and then made us incapable of sinning. TADA! insta bliss.
 
but nooo, that wouldn't be "just" now would it? because god loves to a see a little loss of life if he is to be pleased.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2010/02/03 - 18:50 GMT
"that would be the mob boss.
"i won't break your legs if you pay me in time""

God is just, so his punishments are fitting, unlike the mob boss.
 
Which is similar to the concept of the divine right of kings: it's pretty hard to be unjust, when you're the one who supposedly defines what is & isn't just.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 19:08 GMT
I seem to have worded myself wrong again, and therefore apologize again.
 
What I was trying to get at is that most creationist aren't evil,
however, some are because of what they do and how they do it.
 
Again, sorry for the miswording, or lack of words.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 18:35 GMT
"Get over it.  Mr. Hovind is a crap human being.""
 
indeed.
his intellectual dishonesty makes him one of the most diplorable human being is know, along with pat robetson.
 
i can still remember him agreeign with stein's "science leads you to killing people".....
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
5 days - 8,142v
Posted 2010/01/24 - 18:33 GMT
"My guess is "yes."""
 
my guess is he won't.
 
10 years in normal prison isn't goign to kill him.
 
now if it where a max security....
he'd be someones little bitch in no time.
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
30 minutes - 35v
Posted 2011/09/16 - 5:16 GMT
WE NEED TO GET HIM OUT OF PRISON  TheOneWhoFought@yahoo.com, email this person who has a FOOL PROOF plan to get him out!!!! This person has asked me for his protection to assemble a team of people to organize his release AT ALL COSTS.
 
                 HELP ME HELP THIS GUY HELP HOVIND!!!
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
30 minutes - 35v
Posted 2011/09/16 - 5:46 GMT
WE NEED TO FREE HOVIND AT ALL COSTS. A 32nd degree freemason who's also invloved in top secret military activities, and is a High ranking military personel of over 20 years experience has informed me that Hovind will be killed before his release date. 
 
                      Someone else I've come into contact with wishes for me to give you his email. TheOneWhoFought@yahoo.com He has a FOOL PROOF plan of releasing Hovind from prison. Either we DO SOMETHING NOW, or this man will BE MURDERED in prison, and it will be played out that he was attacked by another inmate.
 
                           WE NEED TO GET HIM OUT, AND WE NEED TO START NOW!! This person is organizing a team of people to get hovind out of prison, but needs resources that are out of his reach. His plans to get Hovind out are simple, yet effective. FREE HOVIND......NOW!!!!!!!!!! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!
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Re: So, will Mr. Hovind die in prison?
3 days - 4,645v
Posted 2012/01/09 - 16:56 GMT
Good luck with that.


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