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Submitted By 9tails on 09/10/13
FreeHovind, 9tails, Creation and Evolution 
This Discussion originally posted in the "FreeHovind" Group

The first thing that must be done in order to understand is to clear your mind of everything you think, everything you have been told, everything you have experienced and everything you think you know.

Now, look at the universe, with an open, clear mind. What do we see? Existence, simple existence. Matter, energy, life.
What is the first thing we know about the universe? It exists. That is a fair, logical deduction.

Now, we must ask 2 questions that engage the existence of the universe.
How? and Why? how does it exist? and why does it exist?

First with the how; When considering the origin of the universe, you come to 2 possible causes; Either the universe was created in / of itself (autopoiesis)
The universe was created by an outside source (allopoiesis)

The cause of the universe is either -Natural- or -Providential-

And the why?

If the source of the universe was Natural (created of itself, without extra-natural intercession), then the why is Accidental. Chance. Random occurrence. Unintended. Without reason or purpose or meaning.

If the source of the universe was Providential (created by an outside source, an extra-natural factor), then the why is Intentional. Meant. Purposeful. Planned.

Now that we have outlined the 2 possibilities -Naturalism- and -Providentialism- we must look at the necessary qualities of the 2 separate mechanisms that may have caused the universe into existence.

Looking first at the laws of the physical world and that of thermodynamics, we know that everything with a beginning has an ending. All things that once began, comes to an inevitable close. We therefore understand that everything in the physical realm is subject to the same principle. We then understand that everything has a cause, nothing is without a premotioned mechanism and source. Everything has a source that vindicated the existence of that subject. Everything then, has a reason, As everything has a source. Finally, everything has a drive. All matter and energy is propagated from a source and driven to conducive existence. It would be a fair and logical deduction to know that all things 1) Begin, 2) have a cause, 3)are driven to exist, and 4) End.

This is called -The principle of physical order-

Once we understand the order of the physical realm, we can apply these precepts to better understand the source of the universe. there are 4 things that we can know about the source of the universe, whether natural or providential.

1) The source had to have had the resources to create the universe (the fuel)
2) The source had to be able to create the universe (to design the functions and the laws)
3) The source had to be driven to create the universe (will or motion)
4) The source is not bound by time constraints (mechanism set before time expansion)

applying these qualities to a possible naturalistic source find;

The resources drawn for the universe would've derived from nowhere, concluding the same origin for the universe itself. Or that matter and energy are eternal bodies, granting infinite capability and capacity to the universe itself.

The laws of the universe and its cooperative functions formed from nothing. Or that functionality and laws are eternal mechanisms that infinitely operate inside the physical realm.

The drive given the universe of existential properties are vindicated from nothing. Or that the drive to exist is eternal.

The eternal mechanism for the universe would have to be both eternal and infinite, to transform and manipulate raw energy into complex intelligent life and more without boundary. To exist outside of time before and after the universe.

In conclusion with the naturalistic approach, Either the universe itself is eternal and infinite, except the universe, in it's entirety, is limited and is bound, by time and by creation. or that it has been derived from nothing. Nothing always produces nothing, presumably never more. An observable consistent, physical control.

as to say;    0 + 0 = 0 / 0 + 0 = 1 ?

applying these qualities to a providentialistic source find;

The resources drawn from the universe would've derived from somewhere extra-natural, the providential source as.

The laws and functions in the universe would've been designed to serve the operation that they perform perpetually, suggesting a sentient, likely intelligent providence.

The drive given the universe would've derived from that providence, being driven to create the universe, again suggesting sentience and intelligence.

That providential source would be, in essence, eternal, being outside the beginning and ending of the universe. That providential source as much, would be without boundary being capable of producing physical matter, energy, life, intelligent life and metaphysical constructs, like morality and natural boundaries.

In conclusion with the providential approach, Either the universe was constructed and designed by something eternal and infinite, shaping subjective progressive existence or something eternal, infinite and intelligent, shaping objective designed existence.

Though the physical world holds testament to boundaries and limitations in its construct, we can know that whether natural or providential, the source of the universe is eternal and infinite.
So, you see, everyone has a god. Something that is tied into eternity and infinity. I have observed that our naturalist friends are tied into a religion of humanism, worshipping the earth and making a beast of themselves, as they hope to free themselves from damnation and justify self indulgence. They exhault blind motion, impulse, destruction and death.

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