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An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
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Why I am a Christian
Submitted By admin on 09/08/25
Aubrey Falconer, admin, Documents, theology, logic, worldviews, atheism, evolution, christianity 
This Document originally posted in the "Aubrey Falconer" Group

A concise explanation of why I believe that God exists - and further - why I believe that the Bible, collectively, is the express word of God revealed to humankind.
 
This argument is arranged into three base postulates - each building on the preceding, and complimented by a series of supporting points.
 
Please note that I do not currently have time to personally defend every single one of these points. Do your own research, the data is out there. If, upon examining the evidence, you reach a different conclusion than I have on a specific area mentioned in this argument - and you feel burdened to share this in the comments - please don't expect an exhaustive refutation from me. During the course of my life, I intend to develop this argument to a point where it will contain answers to all common refutations - but that will take some time.
 
All the best,
 
-Aubrey
 
 
 
 
 
1) The probability of the universe arriving at it's current state by natural processes is incredibly insignificant, and thus it is entirely rational to conclude that the universe had a supernatural origin:
  • Abiogenesis is woefully inadequate to explain how life could have arisen on Earth
  • Panspermia either involves the same problem of abiogenesis somewhere else in the universe, or directly invokes the supernatural
  • Evolution through natural selection suffers from an extreme dearth of transitional forms in the fossil record, and resorts to nothing more than fanciful stories when attempting to explain the incredible complexity and symbiotic relationships we find in nature.
  • If the universe has always existed, it should have experienced heat death long ago. If instead, the universe had a beginning - the supernatural is again invoked.

2) The Bible's narrations, interpreted literally, provide us with testable scientific predictions that it would have been impossible for the original authors to conceive of autonomously:
  • Geological evidence for a young earth and vast, catastrophic global flood
  • Paleontological evidence for a time in the past when the earth was radically different from what it is today - capable of supporting life forms that would be completely unviable in our modern climate
  • Biostratigraphical evidence of a geologic column produced by hydrologic sorting, ecological zonation, etc during the Noaic flood; in the form of numerous "anomalies" in the geologic column when interpreted from a uniformitarian standpoint

3) The Bible claims to be the word of God, and contains ample authentication mechanisms to verify this claim:
  • Prophecy: God exists outside of our spacetime continuum, and is perfectly aware of what the future holds for us. Because of this, the Bible includes a significant amount of prophecy - much of which has already come to pass with incredible accuracy.
    • (Isaiah 46:9-10 KJV) Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
    • (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 KJV) But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
  • Coherence: the Bible is comprised of 66 books penned by 40 separate authors over thousands of years - all of which agree with each other. Though many claim that there are conflicts within the Bible, I believe that all apparent conflicts are the result of deliberate  or unintentional misunderstandings of the ideas that the Biblical text conveys.
  • Faith: As I have just demonstrated, the Bible offers a much more substantial worldview foundation than abstract faith in an unsubstantiated myth. The Bible itself claims this - clarifying that belief in the God of the Bible does not necessitate an abandonment of science and logic, or intellectual dishonesty rooted in a supposed disparity between the observable universe and that which the Bible describes.
    • (John 14:11 KJV) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
    • (Romans 1:20 KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
14 hours - 2,434v
Posted 2009/09/27 - 3:42 GMT
Great Aubrey!!!

Lauren W.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
5 days - 22,986v
Posted 2011/09/20 - 23:42 GMT
I'm to lazy to read all of that...
 
But if this is a Pro-God perswasive essay, then I agree, otherwise, I disagree.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
19 hours - 2,706v
Posted 2009/11/07 - 0:02 GMT
Thats wonderful!  I couldn't agree. More.  BTW im just back for today. =)
 
Thanks for the message.  I love this game and the people on it.
-Jay
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bibl
2 weeks - 22,159v
Posted 2009/11/18 - 3:03 GMT
This is good, Aubrey.  And I'm sure it will just keep getting better!
You hardly leave room for a logical argument with a case so well articulated;)
 
~Kellie~
 
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 day - 3,713v
Posted 2010/02/11 - 22:09 GMT
Fact:   a statistical impossibility is mathematically accepted to be 10^-50.  

Fact:  Chance of a typical protein being formed from inert matter:   10^-175.   

let me explain,   that's  1 divided by 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000


Remember that word typical?  That means it contains about 100 to 300 amino acids.  The most complex amino acid (that has been found among the 10^50,000 possible combination)  has 26,926 amino acids.

That's 1 divided by..... well lets face it its a bit bigger than 10^-50

» Reply to Comment
Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/02/12 - 13:24 GMT
Well, I'll have a crack at you Aubrey.
 
1) The probability of the universe arriving at it's current state by natural processes is incredibly insignificant, and thus it is entirely rational to conclude that the universe had a supernatural origin
 
So, you're saying that natural process does not exist, or that God is incredibly clever in covering up his existence? Natural process has been studied and studied for years.
The most famous (Accidental) experiment was the Speckled Moth in Britain.
It was proven there are thee types of the same moth, and all three types popped up at different times, and were directly related to the conditions of the nearby Coal Plant.
Before the coal plant was there, the Moths where white.
When the tree were black, the Moths adapted to their enviroment,
when there was no coal plant, the moths became speckled, but both Black and white speckled moths still exist to this day.
 
Another natural process that my family has seen.
Pomeranians are decendants of the Chow-Chow, which is a significantly bigger dog than the pint-sized pomeranian.
We get a wide variety of Pomeranians, some close to 25 pounds, others barely 5 pounds. This is caused by genetic traits leftover from their Chow-Chow heritage.
 
The Universe has not always existed, let us remember the Big bang trillions of years ago. What caused that is where I finally put Super-natural into the equation.
The Universe is an amazing place, we can not predict what will happen to it,
therefore, how can you say we should have perished of heat death long ago?
 
 
 
 
2) The Bible's narrations, interpreted literally, provide us with testable scientific predictions that it would have been impossible for the original authors to conceive of autonomously.
 
So you believe the bible to be an historial and scientific document?
I must ask right now if you're read all the versions of the bible, which total well into the thousands.
Over the years, the bible has been changed to favor the church associated with it,
and some churches have left some information in because it went against other churches.
Have you read an original bible? It is vastly different from today's bible.
Get back to me on this when you've read the original bible.
 
 
 
3) The Bible claims to be the word of God, and contains ample authentication mechanisms to verify this claim
 
Claims to be, or proves it?
I can claim to be a doctor, but I'd have to prove it.
The bible has been changed over the years, I'm sure you've read the original one.
In short, the churches themselves changed and manipulated the word of God to make it where they are right, and science is wrong.
 
I look forward to your counter-move Aubrey, I love a good debate :-)
 
With great sincerity,
 
TheDude
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
2 weeks - 19,718v
Posted 2010/02/13 - 6:26 GMT
Greetings!
 
I'll be delighted to elaborate on these points, but I may have to bow out of the ring if it looks like we are headed towards a classic monolithic atheism / theism debate :)
 
To facilitate my reply, I'll attempt to condense your argument into it's essential points  - please let me know if you don't agree with any of my summarizations:
 
  1. Natural process have been studied for years, and God has not been found. Thus, God is either deliberately covering up his existence or does not exist at all.
  2. Natural processes are consistent, and natural selection can explain the diversity of life abounding on the world today. Speckled moths and specialised dog breeds showcased as examples.
  3. We fallible humans can't predict anything with absolute certainty, the big bang may very well have been supernatural, and since the universe isn't infinitely old and we don't know everything, how can I state that we should have experienced heat death long ago?
  4. There are thousands of versions of the Bible - all far different from the original text. The Bible we have today is the product of centuries of alterations and manipulations, and is therefore obviously not useful as a scientific or historical document now even if it was at the time of it's writing.
 
And here is my reply to each point:
 
  1. My position is that God has provided humans with ample evidence of his existence. The description of this position constitutes the original argument I have presented above, but in essence, this evidence includes:
    • Natural processes whose origin cannot be described without invoking the supernatural
    • Direct, authenticated, and recorded encounters with humanity
       
  2. Attempts at describing the spontaneous, natural appearance of life on Earth (abiogenesis) are statistically absurd, but for the sake of this discussion on natural selection, I will overlook this (as well as the fact that we don't have a natural explanation for what life truly is).

    Evolution through beneficial mutations favoured by natural selection absolutely can not explain the diversity of life we can observe today. Natural selection is nature's "fitness function". It determines the optimum organism in any given environment - which serves to rapidly eliminate mutants with very few exceptions.

    The mutations which can be termed "beneficial" that humans have observed or which are are statistically plausible are direct losses of genetic information, which is the complete opposite of macro evolution. Genetic codes are incredibly complicated - far more so than any system ever created by man. Expecting a series of random genetic mutations to change one kind of animal to another is more optimistic than expecting to improve your computer by beating on it with a hammer :)

    Evolution has far, far more issues than just the probability of beneficial mutations though - The existence of symbiotic relationships in nature, dearth of evidence in the fossil record, and abundance of irreducibly complex biological systems are all serious arguments against evolutionary theory.

    Here's some fun articles on genetics written from a Creation Science perspective:

    » Genetics: No friend of evolution
    » Antibiotic Resistance of Bacteria

  3. Good point! I didn't state that we should be experiencing heat death, but rather that those who deny the possibility of the supernatural need to explain why we haven't yet experienced heat death. The focus of my first postulate was to establish the plausibility of a supernatural reality, and it appears that you agree with me thus far.

  4. There are actually an astounding number of manuscripts available which demonstrate that the Bible has been preserved for hundreds and thousands of years with meticulous attention to detail. Here's an article on the subject:

    » Biblical Reliability

    I study from the King James and Young's Literal English translations, and frequently reference Strong's to delve into the underlying Hebrew and Greek text whenever I come across an ambiguity.
 
-Aubrey
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2010/02/13 - 21:26 GMT
I will first off say, I am not an atheist. I'm a christian who has a slightly different mind set.
 
To reply to your points.
 
1. That is what I believe, that at some point, science takes a back seat, and God takes over the natural process. I believe God exists because something has to cause evolution, which I believe is God.
 
2. I understand where you're coming from when saying Abiogenesis is absurd.
 I believe evolution does explain the massive diversity Earth has, and also, evolution favors mutants, because most mutations are just adaptations to an environment.
 
3. Yes, we do agree here.
 
4. The Bible itself has been preserved for many many years. But it has been changed many many times by churches.
Here is an article that backs my point.
 
 
Do not worry, this will not turn into a debate based on the bashing of each view point, rather, I hope to keep this a friendly debate between two friends.
 
With sincerity and kindness,
 
TheDude
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
2 weeks - 19,718v
Posted 2010/02/14 - 7:30 GMT
2) Evolution has an incredibly difficult time describing how random mutations - which always, with statistically insignificant exceptions, result is a loss of ordered information (which can occasionally be beneficial in certain environments), can overcome the boundaries of irreducible complexity to gradually morph one kind of animal to another.
 
4) There is no question that not all Biblical manuscripts agree with each other - but the vast majority of manuscripts do agree in nearly every important area. When I am studying a particular passage, 1 John 5:8 for example (a critical bastion of the doctrine of the Trinity), I often utilize the internet to research what I am reading. In the case of this example, I believe that it's pretty easy to determine that the verse was altered by a group with an agenda. The other issue which you mentioned is internal Biblical consistency - and although the Bible does occasionally differ on technical details (the "title on the cross") section of the article you referenced being a perfect example, I believe that the Bible is consistent when read with proper hermeneutics.
 
 
And now an interesting question for yourself:
What causes you to identify with Christianity even though you do not appear to accept the Bible as accurate? What do you consider to be Christianity, and how would your understanding of it differ from a belief system such as Deism?
 
 
All the Best,
 
-Aubrey
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bibl
0 second ago - 0v
Posted 2010/02/13 - 22:36 GMT
 
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 9,839v
Posted 2010/07/20 - 17:58 GMT
The figure 10^-175 become relatively small when you look at the size of the universe. Think of a lottery where for every 10^175 ticket there is a winner. Now if you bought a ticket you could say "it is statistically impossible for my ticket to be the winner", but if 10^175 tickets where bought, one would have to be the winner. Now lets say there are 10^10*10^175 tickets sold, there are 10^10 winning tickets in total. You can still say the it is impossible for you to win, but 10^10 people have to win, right?
The universe has figures even bigger than that, so it may be actually impossible, for a single protein to form. You might say "But why should it happen on earth? The odds against it happening on earth are enormous". And the answer to that is that if it wasn't earth we wouldn't be around to ask the question. Think of the chances of you being born, there were thousand of other sperm, why you? (and don't say because god chose you to be born). Because if it wasn't you, you wouldn't be around to ask the question. 
 
As for the great flood, there is simply not enough water, people have done actual studies and have found  the even if all the ice melted, a global flood would be utterly impossible. 
 
Another thing there is abousolutly no evidence for a young earth. How did mountains form? Did god just make them all? How would the continents have time to separate?  Plate tectonics, mountains are still forming, look at the Hawaiian Islands, they are still forming as a hotspot moves along with a plate. What about the mid atlantic ridge? Believe me, my dads a geologist.
 
God created man in his image, isn't that a little vain? And why should humans be so special? Because were smart? Chimpanzees use tools just like us, they just haven't evolved as far. Did god create chimpanzees in his kinda image? No, humans created god in their image.
 
Evolution is not about one species becoming another, a fish doesn't become a bird, but they may have branched off of common ancestor. Evolution is a tree, species diverge.
 
If the Christian god is the true god, why are there other religions? Why wouldn't god just say hi to everybody and tell them all to believe in him?
 
Aubrey, I hope I have not offended you in anyway, I am only stating my opinion as you have yours. Just because I disagree with you does not in any way tarnish my belief that you are the greatest game maker on the face of the earth :)
Spitfire
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2010/07/23 - 16:19 GMT
Comment moved to the "current" bottom of the post.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
6 hours - 739v
Posted 2010/07/22 - 15:07 GMT
1) the main point is, for this claim is that the big bang exploded in pure energy, the energy became quarks, the quarks becam protons, nutrons and electrons, wich  became atoms, ect. but if you trace back to the pure energy in nothingness, space betwwen universes/timelines, there are many theries about that. Like collection of energy remaining from dead universes, to suppermasive black holes in other universes getting so much mass that they "rip out of" the space time continum, from our universe colapsing before than expanding again, to coliding universes.
 
WHat I'm trying to say is, these theries are supported by evedence from our universe, some are so close to being proven. God, supernatural powers? nada. no evedence. no proof
 
As for eveloutin you have to take into account the billlions of years into acount. we have crated life from elements found in pre-life earth, and manged to fuse molecules with lightning. and if even only a really in credibly simple organizm emerges, If it manges to survive and reproduce, it will make more of itself.
Also, mutations happen quite a bit. If there good (i.e. longer legs, faster running, able to catch prey) they will fluourish, pass on the mutation, and push out their previos species. But yes there are bad mutations (like autism) in the wild they woulnt survive, so thats why we dont "deevolve)
 
Also besides the bible, what about adam and eve? where are their fossils? Could they be right next to ardi's and lucy's? nope.
 
2> wich brings us to the next point the bible. You have a three thousand year book, and you still belive in the authentisity? yes, while some of it might be true, but since people like abraham and soloman are religous leaders, they are betrayed in a religous light and woop-de-do, moses is parting water. Hat could have just been a flood that happened 6 months after the jews crossed and the pharoh never changed his mind.
 
3> and finally, the origions. I belive the bible with all its origions of the universe, was created for people to make sense of why they wrere here. they just took evedence from the world they knew so they could come up with a satisfying reson everything it is as it is. Three thousand years later, the belifs have been passed on and we have fdound evedence, with our new tech, how the universe came to be, and now people are afraid to let go of thheir beliefs. Some people even try to combine sience and religion, (like you) witch doesn't work.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 9,839v
Posted 2010/07/22 - 15:46 GMT
another thing, if the bible is authentic then why does it promote slavery, and human sacrifice? does god promote that or is that just what humans put in, and if humans put that then what about the rest of the bible?
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bibl
1 week - 24,924v
Posted 2010/07/22 - 17:04 GMT
God doesn't promote slavery, or human sacrifice.  That's what really happened back then. God used man to write the Bible. So in a way man did write the Bible. 
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 9,839v
Posted 2010/07/22 - 20:39 GMT
But for example, the bible says that Jephthah made a vow to god saying that if he got to win a battle against the Ammonites he would sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house to greet him as a burnt offering. And then it says that god gave him victory, and so when he comes home his daughter comes out to greet him and he has to sacrifices her. And if obviously god would have known this all along when Jephthah made the deal with him, so I guess the lesson we learn from this story is that if we really want something all we have to do is burn up our daughters, and because god likes the smell (which it also says in the bible) he'll give it to us. hmmm what a kind and loving god eh?
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 24,177v
Posted 2010/07/23 - 15:32 GMT
Try and actually make an attempt at discussing the point Oaky made, instead of making new attacks Spitfire.
 
Also, before I go on, Jephthah believed that his cat would come out and not his daughter.
 
Spitfire, you must understand that we all deserve to be sacrificed to God. If we commit one little sin (and we commit many every day), we are imperfect before God.
 
Think of this: A spotless white tuxedo is ordered for the best man at a wedding. If the best man does ANYTHING to do with dirt, his tuxedo will be ruined and he will have to dryclean it, which can take days.
 
It is the same with us. We are the tuxedo, and we have made our respective tuxedos almost black with dirt and grime. You can see God as that great drycleaner (cliched anology, I know).
 
Now go to the Bible, and look for one of the many family trees. Do you think that men could make all of those up, in such variety? Also, if you refute the Bible in its entirety, you must take away culteral advances that we would not have withOUT the culture from the lives and times described in the Bible.
 
Think on that little cliche for a bit, then actually counter it.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2010/07/23 - 16:25 GMT
Sorry, I planned to have my comment down here :)
 
This is in response to Supermarinespitfire's original comment from earlier. All points, excluding the first, are directly quoted here so you don't have to cross-reference.
 
I don't feel like going into your first point for the following reasons:
1. I just woke up, so I don't want to do math.~
2. It's the middle of summer, so I don't want to do math.~
Now, on the rest of it. . . .
 
As for the great flood, there is simply not enough water, people have done actual studies and have found  the even if all the ice melted, a global flood would be utterly impossible.
 
I'm curious if these referenced, yet unlinked so I can look through them, studies remembered to include sources of water besides ice like groundwater, springs, etc.
 
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.Genesis 7:11 NASB
 
 
Another thing there is abousolutly no evidence for a young earth.
 
I would like to point out that everyone trying to figure out how the universe was formed has the same evidence, some just interpret it differently. Now, I would love to point out that I know of no irrefutable evidence in favor of evolution. However, since you obviously want some evidence that is interpreted in favor of a young earth, try this wonderful article about comets, and how they would not still exist after billions of years.
 
How did mountains form? Did god just make them all? How would the continents have time to separate?  Plate tectonics, mountains are still forming, look at the Hawaiian Islands, they are still forming as a hotspot moves along with a plate.
 
You are obviously assuming that plate tectonics is a slow and gradual process. Several actual observations refute this assumption and instead point towards a fast, catastrophic movement of the plate tectonics. For more information on the theory of plate tectonics, read this article here. The article also explains how the subduction of the ocean floor during the flood would have allowed for the rapid spreading of the continental plates.
 
God created man in his image, isn't that a little vain? And why should humans be so special? Because were smart? Chimpanzees use tools just like us, they just haven't evolved as far. Did god create chimpanzees in his kinda image? No, humans created god in their image.
 
For more information as to "Man being created in God's image" you can read this article. And of course, more information on tool usage as well as speciality of man in God's image here as well.
 
Evolution is not about one species becoming another, a fish doesn't become a bird, but they may have branched off of common ancestor. Evolution is a tree, species diverge.
 
Mmk. Evolution has two meanings. There's macroevolution (Genetic changes in one species producing a new species. Unproven and unobservable) and microevolution (Genetic changes within one species producing variety within that species. Proven and observable). In the sense you are speaking of, you would be referring to macroevolution. Macroevolution IS about species to species transitions. It would have to be to get everything from one ancestor. Aka, Somewhere along the line a fish (or some other animal) would along the line have to become a bird (or some other animal) to get everything from one.
 
If the Christian god is the true god, why are there other religions? Why wouldn't god just say hi to everybody and tell them all to believe in him?
 
There are other religions because man is constantly attempting to explain his purpose for why he and everything around him exists. And man is also a thinker. He is going to continually search for something that works and because of this, each new idea gains its own followers and becomes its own religion. As to your second point in the above quote: He has.
 
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 NIV
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6 NIV
 
There are many many other scriptures that I could quote, but I'd never get on to the rest of this comment.
 
Now that I have refuted nearly all of your arguments, excluding the one I could not understand for the life of me,  feel it is my turn to make my own arguments.
 
1. According to the theory of evolution, life grows steadily more complex further down the evolutionary timeline. However, that goes directly against all good observational science. Mutations can not add information, only act upon existing information. For life to become more complex, there would have to be a gain of genetic information. Such a mutation has never been found. Continuing with other observations, it would follow that with no new information being added, that life is steadily growing less and less complex as time goes on, the direct opposite as what would be required for evolution.
 
2. Radiometric dating is often cited as proof that the earth has existed for a loooooonnnng time. However, all radioisotope dating methods assume that the decay rate of a given isotope is constant and it has always been what it is today. However, studies have shown that the decay rate has not been constant throughout history, rendering radiometric dating false and useless. For a semi-technical article about radiometric dating, click here. For access to several articles dealing with radiometric dating, including the ones I have quoted, click here.
 
3. Had life evolved from one common ancestor, there should be several transitional forms showing the change from one species to another. No such transitional forms have been found, despite how widespread they must be to produce all of the various species there are today. All that have been found are desperate hoaxes in an attempt to provide false evidence to cover this fatal flaw in evolutionary doctrine.
 
Now, I would hate to have done all this research, and all this writing only to have folks skim through it. I encourage you to follow the links I have provided and thoroughly read what I have said. I would also be terribly disappointed if no one attempts to respond to my own arguments. In an attempt to increase my chances of getting a response relating to my arguments, I have only given three. Enjoy.
 
-AppleSky,
Your Friendly Neighborhood Revelationist, No-Death-Before-Adam Redemptionist.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 9,839v
Posted 2010/07/26 - 4:36 GMT
I don't have time to respond at the moment, as I am going to go to bed, but...
jephath may have  thought that his cat would come out, but god would have known it would be his daughter, so is it just for him to have accepted the agreement?
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 9,839v
Posted 2010/07/31 - 2:00 GMT
@tigerstorm: so we should kill people who sin and burn them up to please god?
You comment seems to commend human sacrifice as does the bible, I for one see that as immoral, barbaric, and deranged, but here is where it comes down to a matter of opinion, you can think that it is good to sacrifice people, but I do not, as I've stated above. If you accept the bible in entirety then I guess you advocate slavery as well?
We both live in countries where their is freedom of thought so I guess you can think whatever you want, even if it's immoral.
spitfire
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2010/07/31 - 2:46 GMT
No, We're saying that sin is a fault. Sin = Death. Sacrifice of an ANIMAL was used to pay for the Sin. Sacrifice of the ANIMAL who had not sinned was payment equivalent to Death. (Oh, Did I mention it was the sacrifice of ANIMALS? Wasn't sure if I made that clear. By the way, Animals. ANIMALS!) The reason the sacrifice is no longer needed, is due to Jesus, who did not sin (And therefore was not deserving of death) died in our place. As to slavery, I believe you are mixing slavery and racism and using the slavery of the African people within America as your frame of reference. For more information about the Bible in relation to slavery, I would recommend this article. To continue on mah own points. . . .
 
Looking back in history, we wouldn't have made it to the point in civilization we have today. And, contrary to what you claim, the Bible does not advocate in favor of slavery, rather, it places limits on it extensively. And in claiming that we also advocate for slavery and human sacrifice, I'll point out that in accepting the Bible in its entirety includes these verses:
 
“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.” -Romans 13:1-7
 
And with that, I gracefully climb down from my soapbox, to get some sleep.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
8 hours - 1,253v
Posted 2011/09/19 - 23:51 GMT
I agree with you, Aubrey.
 
~Falin
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
20 hours - 3,545v
Posted 2011/09/21 - 20:29 GMT
who would bring this thread up
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 31,378v
Posted 2011/09/21 - 23:16 GMT
FALIN! Dont bring this up! lol I cant believe the admin brought this up.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
3 days - 9,368v
Posted 2011/09/24 - 3:56 GMT
I agree, but as you see aubrey is a religious person as most of us are. There is no need to argue between the exsitence of many thing. The Lord wouldn't want us to argue because of these things.
 
Everyone believes in what they believe so let them. One day people will have there own judgement but fo now respect one another, its there opinion.
 
I wish this wasn't brought up however, I am saddend to see disagrements of religious things. Please no more arguing about anything religious.
 
Yes, I am christian and so I ask you all to please keep some opinions to yorself when it comes to games or most internet websites.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2011/09/29 - 3:48 GMT
You realize this is Aubrey's blog, right? Whether or not you are a Christian or dislike fighting, it's still Aubrey's choice on what to put in his blog.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 31,378v
Posted 2011/09/30 - 1:10 GMT
Point taken.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
3 days - 9,368v
Posted 2011/10/02 - 23:23 GMT
Exactly,Eric...
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
5 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2011/12/02 - 6:48 GMT
Endless debate. :)
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 13,245v
Posted 2011/12/17 - 19:06 GMT
Not a good one.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2012/04/17 - 4:45 GMT
I don't mean to grave dig or anything, but when reading this, I just can't help but state the gigantic problem I have with 1).

With that logic, God must have a God who has a God who has a God etc.



 
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
32 minutes - 78v
Posted 2012/07/05 - 9:12 GMT
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2012/07/27 - 0:30 GMT
You really think there is a guy floating in the clouds? What if it is sunny?
You go in an airplane, you don't see any guy floating in the clouds! (if you do then it's probably a balloon)
I think you are thinking that what you think is "god" isn't really "god". It's something else you don't know.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 31,378v
Posted 2012/07/27 - 11:06 GMT
God isnt in the clouds, he didnt say where heaven is. He watches over all of us and he had created everything, including me and you in his image of perfection.
 
And God just exsists. Thats it. Its confusing but he made the laws of physics so science wont help you there. He is the lord he is litterally everything. 
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
23 hours - 2,065v
Posted 2013/02/22 - 7:59 GMT
I may be a bit late in discovering this, but I found it very intriguing and you have made some good points.
 
However, I would like to point out that even though the chances of life evolving spontaneously are incredibly small, there still is a chance, and this has been scientifically proven.  The chance is small, but the universe is huge; huge enough that the chances that intelligent life will develop somewhere in the universe are fairly high.  And in order for an intelligent life form to ponder the chances of its own existence, it needs to exist in the first place, so while the chances that our specific point in space and time would be occupied is tiny, the chances that there will be life somewhere is large.  When life appears somewhere, it wonders why its specific spot, out of the entire universe is occupied.  The answer: it inevitably would have happened somewhere, and no more likely anywhere else than here.
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/02/26 - 3:15 GMT
Wolflink,
 
If I may, I would like to point something else out: Although I agree that the universe is huge, and that the changes of intelligent life existing in the universe are fairly high, I believe (as a Christian, of course) that an intelligent being (more commonly known as God) would have had to create something so incredible (ok, so not the best wording, but how else is one supposed to describe the universe?).
 
The variables in the universe are perfectly balanced so that intelligent life could, in fact, exist. If the force of gravity bonding atoms was changed in even the tiniest of proportions, the impact on the universe would be catastrophic. For example, if the bonding were weakened (by billionths upon billionths of a newton) slightly, all atoms would cease to exist except Hydrogen (H). And despite what Sci-Fi TV shows say, you can't have intelligent life existing out of pure Hydrogen. If the bonding were increased (by billionths upon billionths of a newton) slighly, all animals except bugs would be crushed by the force of their own mass, and bugs would have to grow thick legs to support themselves. That is only one tiny movement of one different variable: there are thousands of variables all coming together to create the perfect universe.
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
 
WORKS CITED:
Citation for Universe Variables: [Book:] A Case for a Creator, [Author:] Lee Strobel
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bible
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/03/18 - 2:25 GMT
Alright, excellent.
 
If the universe was created any differently, we would have evolved differently, into different forms, and we would be thinking the same things.
 
We sit here, thinking about how perfect this universe is made for life, for OUR kind of life, and we don't think about how it ISN'T. Most of space is such an environment that we would die from lack of oxygen and pressure. Had we evolved on another planet, in another environment, we would have completely different forms, and we would still be thinking the same things.
 
The probability that life will arise in SOME UNIVERSE is 100%. If you don't know WHY the probability is that it's 100%...umm. We don't know what the probability is for life arising, because we don't know the number of different possible universes. If we assume that there is an infinite number, then the probability of anything happening approaches 0, even if it happens in a lot of different universes, because anything over infinity approaches zero.
 
Some interesting things would arise even if what we define as Life didn't arise. An Interesting Thing could even be sentient and define itself as life. In other words, other forms of Life may be possible.
 
Think of it this way:
  • . . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for. ~Douglas Adams
 
---
 
Although there SEEMS to be a myriad number of anthropic constants (what you are arguing), there really are only four. Me, Mu, Md, and g, being mass of the electron, mass of the up-quark, mass of the down-quark and the Grand Unified Coupling Constant which determines the strength of all of the forces. Because of this, there is not an infinite number of possibilities that may arise. 
 
Here is a link to a wonderful paper by physicist Victor Stenger. If you don't want to read all of it, here is a nice summary.
 
---
 
Here are some wonderful links taking apart your argument, which is the anthropic principle.
 
 
Good luck!
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Re: An argument for the existence of God, and authenticity of the Bibl
2 weeks - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/06 - 10:25 GMT
 
1) The probability of the universe arriving at it's current state by natural processes is incredibly insignificant, and thus it is entirely rational to conclude that the universe had a supernatural origin:
 
if the universe was created by a supernatural origin... who and what created that supernatural origin, is that supernatural origin in it's own universe, and is that universe made up by a different supernatural origin... and maybe that one is also made up by yet another supernatural origin? it's an never ending cycle, and hows to say there isn't another life force out there in our own universe that is also from a supernatural origin, and they have created another universe that we don't currently know about?
 
life has arisen on earth, and if we are to quote the bible adam and eve were the first humans no? and if they were created by a supernatural origin(God) as to be the first humans, then are we all not having incest with each other?
 
secondly regarding Evolution we here in NZ have a living fossil known as the Tuatura: 
Tuatara are rare, medium-sized reptiles (adults ranging from about 300g to 1000g) found only in New Zealand.
 
They are the only extant members of the OrderSphenodontia, which was well represented by many species during the age of the dinosaurs, some 200 million years ago. All species apart from the tuatara declined and eventually became extinct about 60 million years ago.
 
Tuatara are therefore of huge international interest to biologists and are also recognised internationally and within New Zealand as species in need of active conservation management.
 
and as to natural selection why do we have orange carrots? carrots by nature were purple or white in colour, the orange colour was a mutation of the carrot, then we humans breed that colour...
 
and if we take a look at evolution, you need to look no further than humans... go and take a look around some true medieval castle's and you will find you won't be able to walk upright through the door's, as a race we are currently changing all the time
 
and if life can exist out in space(it dose look it up) what's stopping it landing on our planet and over millions of years through the process of evolution, forming in to a new whatever it forms... i don't know
 
if  the universe has always existed, it should have experienced heat death long ago. If instead, the universe had a beginning - the supernatural is again invoked.
this i disagree 
 
since the universe has been expanding since it formed, and is now growing bigger faster than it was when it started, along with the fact that there is several such things out there we don't understand as of yet, as there are unknown force's at hand causing galaxies to rotate, along with causing them to move apart, to together, there is soo much out there we know of not
 
 
(i broke this txt box typed out too much till the point where it crashed.... ill be back to finnish of what i was saying)
 


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