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Understanding Creation
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Why it is science
Submitted By 9tails on 09/06/04
FreeHovind, 9tails, Creation and Evolution 
This Discussion originally posted in the "FreeHovind" Group

One of the arguments put forward by our evolutionist friends is their insisting that creation is "not science", while evolution is "science". There are some very basic concepts that observation would tell us that this is not so, just the opposite in fact. I'll explain:
 
If you take everything you know and place it aside. Everything you think. Everything you are predisposed to. Empty your mind of your prejudices and understandings. Empty your mind. Now what do you have? Mere observation.
 
Now look at the world we live in. It is a world full of life and sound and complexity. There are very basic questions that come to surface when we see our world. What is the earth? Where did the earth come from? What is life? Where did life come from? What is their purpose? Who am I? Where did I come from? What is my purpose? These are the nature of questions that exist with the open mind.
 
Then you begin to notice how everything is intertwined. All life that exists came from the parent before it. The earth is a body in empty space, like the sun and all the stars. You see the universe. Tracing everything back to it's original cause, it's original source. Now we see that the earth is a part of the universe. It is a body of water and complex chemicals and solid ground. The earth is blessed (or cursed) with life.
 
When we see the universe as a whole, we begin to tap into a model of eternity, of infinity. How is it that the universe exists?
 
Was it created from an outside source?
Or does it exist of itself, either an eternal being or of itself created?
 
If the universe is eternal, never having began or cease, the cosmos would never cease. We begin to understand that the universe is cooling, Going dark. It is also expanding, propagating from a source, as all things do. Everything with a beginning has an ending. We see that the cosmos are slowly coming to an end. A beginning is assumed also.
 
If the universe exists of itself, the raw energy and resources would have had to have been derived from somewhere. Basic energy with a drive to trans-mutate and replicate, of itself, begs the architecture of what it is that drives the universe. What drives replicating and transformation? What exists that gives manifest to laws, principles, drives, rules, architecture and system of existence.
 
These approaches to explain the existence of the universe systems of autopoiesis. The idea that the universe exists of and within itself, created itself, is self driven and self designed. Ultimately, there is no way to avoid the paradox, self existence is self design.
 
The last approach to explaining the universe is known as the creationist idea. The system of allopoiesis. The proposal that an outside source was involved in the creation of the universe. The source for the universe had the drive, resources, ability and projected design with which the universe exists there in, to follow a system of laws and functions that govern the universes bound and limited nature. Thermodynamics plays the role of designating such boundaries and limitations on the universe. The same source also, would, supposedly, be eternal of itself. As time is a thing that exists within the universe. The label that is given to such a source has been, for some time, "God" - the source of the universe and life.
 
There is, from time to time, criticism from believers of the autopoiesis idea against the believers of the allopoiesis idea. There is an irony of a sort with the criticism, as allopoiesis is a perfectly reasonable, tenable idea and often, is entirely more substantial that autopoiesis, which is often difficult to grasp even it's possibility.
 
There are systems to allopoiesis, which finds the system of creation, which are observable and testable. The laws of science and the universe, the boundaries and limitations set for the universe, thermodynamics, physics, cosmology, chemistry, all different fields of science bears a architecture, similar one to another, that gives a powerful testimony to creation. Similar drives and design, irreducible complexity. The more we learn about our universe, the more we are able to learn about it's creator, a wonderful prospect.
 
The same principles can be applied to life and biology. Life is never observed spontaneously generating, is naturalistically impossible and follows similar boundaries and limitations as the universe, yet it exists.
Life itself gives another powerful testimony to creation. It's existence, yet, the impossibility of it self assembling. Theories and models are always being tested and created to help elaborate on the mechanism's of creation.
 
This assert is not a false dichotomy as it explains and categorizes the possibilities of the universe and life's existence.

  1. (by JamesRaynor on 09/06/04)Re: Understanding Creation
    1. (by 9tails on 09/06/04)Re: Understanding Creation
      1. (by Blink on 09/06/04)Re: Understanding Creation
        1. (by 9tails on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
          1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
        2. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
      2. (by WWDD on 09/06/04)Re: Understanding Creation
        1. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/14)Re: Understanding Creation
        2. (by Ellman on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
          1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
            1. (by 9tails on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
              1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                1. (by Ellman on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                  1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                  2. (by Blink on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                    1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                      1. (by Ellman on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                        1. (by Blink on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                          1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                            1. (by Blink on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                              1. (by Ellman on 09/06/05)Re: Understanding Creation
                      2. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/14)Re: Understanding Creation
                    2. (by 9tails on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
                      1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
                        1. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/14)Re: Understanding Creation
                        2. (by Ellman on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
                          1. (by 9tails on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
                            1. (by Ellman on 09/06/06)Re: Understanding Creation
                              1. (by 9tails on 09/06/07)Re: Understanding Creation
                                1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/07)Re: Understanding Creation
                                  1. (by Ellman on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                    1. (by 9tails on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                      1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                        1. (by Ellman on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                2. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/07)Re: Understanding Creation
                                  1. (by 9tails on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                    1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                      1. (by Ellman on 09/06/08)Re: Understanding Creation
                                  2. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/12)Re: Understanding Creation
                                    1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/12)Re: Understanding Creation
                                    2. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/14)Re: Understanding Creation
                                  3. (by Blink on 09/06/09)Re: Understanding Creation
                                    1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/09)Re: Understanding Creation
                                      1. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/12)Re: Understanding Creation
                                        1. (by thebiblewascompiledin325AD on 09/06/12)Re: Understanding Creation
                                          1. (by Ellman on 09/06/12)Re: Understanding Creation
                                            1. (by doctorofscience on 09/06/14)Re: Understanding Creation


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