Home > Mars Explorer > Content > Document: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
25 Comments - 56643 Views
An Idea to Help Fully Integrate Community Development
Submitted By Apophis on 13/04/03
Mars Explorer, Apophis, Documents, Official 
This Document originally posted in the "Mars Explorer" Group

Hello all,
 
PanzerAce made an April Fool's post pertaining to a Unity 4 Pro license, and how he had gotten one for the developers on Mars. This turned out to be a joke, and I (rather embarassingly) ended up sending him a PM requesting access to the Unity 4 Pro License. I was informed that it was a joke, and I then congratulated PanzerAce on a wonderfully successful April Fool's Prank- He most definitely had me fooled. :)
 
However, like PanzerAce, I was "thinking long and hard about the future of Mars Explorer", and seeing his post sparked an idea in my mine: What if the community could have a Unity 4 Pro License that everyone could use? This post will address a few issues with this proposed idea such as accessability and the integration of ideas into Mars Explorer.
 
With Mars Explorer taking a turn in a new direction, it is clear that the community must take a more active role in the development of this game. Not to criticise FlyClub (I know he has been busy), but there have been many posts asking for feature requests, many of which are feasible, while none of them have been addressed. This is the main problem with a single developer in a game like this: they simply do not have the time to devote to make every request possible. However, the entire community does.
 
If the entire community were to share a Unity 4 Pro license, we would effectively be able to develop Mars Explorer as a community, rather than individuals suggesting ideas that FlyClub does not have the time to implement. I believe that this would also bring the community closer together; after all, we would all be working to achieve a single, common goal: make Mars Explorer as cool as it possibly can be!
 
Let me quickly address some of the main issues and concerns that you undoubtedly have as you are reading this post:
 
Accessability:
 
The obvious concern with this idea is that the entire community will not have access to a Unity 4 Pro license, seeing as it would be loaded onto one (or a few) person's/people's computers, thus giving a small number of designers access to this incredible resource. This would put us right back where we started, seeing as the designer/designers would not be able to keep up with the community suggestions.
 
I was hoping that through a JavaScript or HTML (though JavaScript would probably work better for this) embed in the new forum, Unity 4 Pro could be integrated fully into the forum as a feature. Rather than loading the program onto a personal computer, if the program were loaded onto a public access computer or network server, it would theoretically allow each member of the forum equal access to this resource.
 
Don't get me wrong- I am not saying that this would be particularly easy, (though I will begin work on a program to do this depending on community reception to this idea) but I do know for a FACT that it is possible to do, and I believe that this would be an incredible leap forward in the development of Mars, the Forum, and creating a stronger community.
 
Integration of Ideas:
 
The other major obvious concern that is likely to arise from this is: How will we stop everyone from inserting their ideas, thus turning the game into a wreck with everyone's ideas messily compiled into one game?
 
In order to address this, I was hoping that an official voting system for ideas could be implemented, to run parallel with the Unity 4 Pro license. After someone makes an edit to the game, they will be required to fill out a short log describing exactly what they did. This will allow moderators to keep track of what is being done to the game, and ensure that the game will not become the scenario described at the beginning of this category.
 
This still does not address the main problem, about how we will stop individual ideas from ruining the game. In order to do this, it is crucial to understand the voting system and how it will work:
 
The voting system will allow users to present a short synopsis of an idea, and a poll will be left open for that idea over a period of one week. If the reception is positive (maybe over 4 stars out of 5?), the idea will be given permission to be implemented into the game using the Unity 4 Pro license. At that time, anyone may implement those ideas when they have the time. Filling out the log after their progress will ensure that they stick with the idea that was supposed to be added, rather than simply adding their own features.
 
Lying on the log will be futile, seeing as moderators will be given access to official logs that save progress on the game every 1 to 3 minutes, so they would be able to know if someone were implementing an unregistered/unconfirmed idea. That person would most likely either be suspended or banned from use of the Unity 4 Pro license.
 
______________________________
 
Personally, I think that this is where Mars is heading; a community, working together to make an awesome game. Please feel free to let me know about any comments or concerns that you may have about implementation of this system; I will be glad to address your concerns and comments.
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
 

» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 7:21 GMT
Firstly, the Unity version Flynn is using is Unity 3. I have mobile licenses for 3. i think the agreed version for Mars at the moment is Unity 3.
 
The entire community would be unable to share the license - that normal Unity pro license covers only one computer. Having one version for everyone to use would be almost freely distibuting Unity Pro - which is what makes it, afaik, against the law.
 
Plus, Mars can be built on Unity Free. It lacks one or two image effects, but for development, it's perfectly acceptable. I don't see why we'd all need Pro. For world development, yes, one does need it - but then, we just purchase licenses for certain members of the community that we trust (maybe the mods... just as an example) and ask that they build them for us. We could have a map submissions queue, which one would be able to add their map to, and then the people with pro would download, build and upload the worlds.
 
Essentially, you are looking for a way to get Unity Pro to everyone. And simply put, Unity sells this product. It is against their interests to allow us to use one license between all of us, and thus is almost certainly unlawful.
 
I wish it was possible. I'll go have a read of the full terms on their site later sometime. But at the moment, my gut instinct is that it's wrong.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 13:57 GMT
ACE, I believe that you can buy a comnunity license for Unity.
Also, we tried that system for 2.22 and it didn't work out ie: Abister now gives himself the power to refuse worlds.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 14:10 GMT
Incorrect - there's a "team license". And see http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/220116/about-team-license.html. You'd require one per team member. Take just flynn and cyber as the 'team'. Assuming neither already have pro, a unity pro + team license each would cost $4000 total.
Seriously. Do your research first, Panzer.
 
And yeah, I know about Abister choosing worlds, but I thought it was him who payed for the license, which would grant him the right.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/03 - 19:27 GMT
Actually, a bister got that computer from a friend who moved away and didn't want the computer.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
21 hours - 2,440v
Posted 2013/04/25 - 23:50 GMT
PanzerAce is that you?!
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/26 - 1:18 GMT
Hello?
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 1:50 GMT
ACE,
 
Think of it this way. I think that this is a rather sneaky way to look at it, but bear with me. This may be illegal, and I have not done enough research on Unity's "legal stuff" to know, but if you know that this is not legal, please inform me thusly.
 
Rather than trying to download Unity onto many computer while only buying it once (which would be illegal), I was more thinking that we download it onto only ONE computer (the website server, maybe?), and give everyone in the community access to that computer. Seeing as there is no law about letting other use your Unity Pro on your computer, I believe that this would be legal to do. What are your thoughts?
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 10:12 GMT
Without actually having the legal stuff in front of me, I seem to remember reading it was illegal to install pro on a public machine. The example was, I think, a library computer.
The best way to solve this would be to contact unity support. They're a nice bunch, and should be able to tell you if this is allowed. My guess, though, would be that you can't.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 14:19 GMT
ACE,
 
I had a look into this, and sadly, it does seem that this is illegal. I quote from the Unity License Software Agreement:
 

One User Per License

You must purchase a license for each individual using Unity Pro and any other paid Unity products. For Unity Pro and all other paid Unity products, you may install such products on both a primary and a secondary computer for use only by the same user. You may not use both installations simultaneously.

 
Sadly, this means that it is illegal for Unity 4 Pro to become avaliable to the whole of Mars simultaneously- but that does not mean that development must be limited to only one or two people. If the free version of Unity were embedded into the website (as this post is proposing), it could still prove to be a very valuable tool for the entire community (rather than one or two individuals) to develop Mars Explorer.
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 14:26 GMT
Unity's free version is, by name, free. Why would you want to have it on this site?
 
Oh, and out of interest:
Flynn et al are using Unity 3.x to develop Mars now (at least that's my understanding). I guess if you want to create worlds in the future, you'll need the links on this page.
» Reply to Comment
le mars iz goodfull !!!!! :D :D
6 days - 21,100v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 0:08 GMT
oh mah gosh this would be soo cool!    VERY complicated and would have to be very well organized and maintained but the potental greatness that can come out of doing this would be amazing!!
 
i do think that a sort of "higher power" will need to be in place to keep everything organized.  Giveing everyone the same right to it seems like a good idea in theroy, but in reality, i agree that mars would just become a disorganized mess. (If someone needs an example/proof of this, just look at communism.)  the voting system you are suggesting iz mighty fine idea.  But can anyone vote? or would it be the few skilled developers who are working on it?
 
this iz i very awesome idea and i hope we could somehow incorporate this into how Mars Explorer iz developed.  :D
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 14:20 GMT
<blanked to avoid repetition>
 
Apophis didn't add the link, so here it is. You can check for yourselves.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 14:21 GMT
ACE,
 
OMG- We posted the exact same thing within 20 seconds of each other. I guess great minds do think alike... :)

Apophis
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/04 - 14:22 GMT
Lol. I'll blank mine out then, as there's no need for multiple instances of the same quote. xD
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
1 day - 4,998v
Posted 2013/04/08 - 0:07 GMT
Why do you need Unity embedded into the browser when you can download it really easily?
 
Aphophis, I don't really get the point of doing that.
 
Gub
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/04/08 - 2:54 GMT
Gub,
 
In answer to your question, there is actually a distinct advantage in embedding Unity into the browser while it can be downloaded easily. The main difference between using Unity in the browser and using Unity on a computer is that the Unity on the browser would be linked solely to the development of the game. No other projects could be created using the browser-embedded Unity.
 
This means that EVERYONE in the community can develop the game. Though Mars is open-source, the current development of Mars Explorer 3.0 is currently closed source, as FlyClub has not yet released the source code, thus, the community cannot develop Mars. This idea is meant to give everyone access to the development of Mars, and not so much access to Unity (which, as you pointed out, can be downloaded easily).
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/04/08 - 2:58 GMT
"Also, we tried that system for 2.22 and it didn't work out ie: Abister now gives himself the power to refuse worlds."

YOU HAVE FOUND ME OUT I AM THE BIGGEST DICTATOR EVER ALL BOW BEFORE MY MIGHT 

Look, I only "refuse" worlds that will never be played, and therefore it's a waste of my time. Plus, the marjority of the time I end up teaching kids how to use their computers, which is NOT what I signed up for. (I didn't really sign up for anything) There is also a lack of demand, and I'm also not getting paid. 

Raise the demand, more worlds will come your way. It's basic economics: no company should make a product no one wants. 
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
23 hours - 2,065v
Posted 2013/04/09 - 0:52 GMT
For embedding Unity in the website, it is definately possible, but it would be quite a feat.  It would be hard enough just to get the code all working properly.  On top of that, we would need a server to host this on, and finally, it would likely run at a turtle's pace compared to the regular unity.  Its a cool thing to dream about, but not practical.  Instead, we should have a page with the latest Unity and Mars Explorer development resources, with nice tutorials to get people started with the development of worlds or of Mars Explorer itself.  We would need mods to keep it updated.
 
Also, I have this idea:  There would be submit boxes for new Mars code and new worlds.  Then we have a team of judges (composed the mods and other moderator selected individuals) to judge the new code and worlds.  It would work like this: there is a list of submitted worlds.  The judge takes the job, reads a description, and is given the world link.  The job state changes from "unclaimed" to "claimed" to let other judges know that the world is being reviewed.  The judge then reviews the world, and if it is a pass, it is added to the world list.  Either the judge can add it on their own (if all judges are given access), or they send it to a trusted individual who has access to the world list.  New programming code would have a similar process.  Approved code is sent to flyclub.  In both cases, if the world or code is rejected, the judge sends the account that submitted the file a message about why it was rejected.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2013/04/09 - 2:05 GMT
WolfLink,
 
Good to see you back on the forums. :)
 
While I believe that this is a wonderful idea for worlds (seeing as we do not have unlimited space on the world list for players to choose from), I have some doubts about the new code implementation. Being knowledgeable in Java and Python, I can tell you that, unless a coder has direct access to the source code (which FlyClub has not yet released), it is incredibly difficult to make changes, seeing as you would really have to take a guess at how the data is stored and implemented.
 
This would result in a lot of good code, however, they would contain a lot of bugs due to the unknowns of data storage and representation. FlyClub would personally have to go through and de-bug the code, and it would be far more productive for FlyClub to simply write the code himself, rather than have others write flawed code that he would then have to debug.
 
I would suggest taking this up with a few of the moderators- I very much like the idea about the world "judging", though I believe that it would need more than one judge's opinion to add it to the world list.
 
Sincerely,
Apophis
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/09 - 13:16 GMT
TBH, the system you suggested would NOT work for code. There are afaik very few moderators (eg flynn and eric) that can program, so it would be easy for them to overlook a major bug. The best way, imho, is for the writer of the code to compile a demo (to prove it works, and to discover the community's opinion), show the code to the development group on skype, and if it's cleared, then add it to the project.
Code is a very personal thing, and a lot of people are very thouchy when it comes to releasing it. Unlike worlds, where one would post pictures or a live demo, you're releasing all your 'assets' in one text box.
Stupid as it may seem, I won't upload any of my code to a place publicly visible (eg, the biplane code). However, directly sending it to specific people, or putting it in the open source package, I don't mind.
Also, for code, we'd need a system to detect plagarism. I've seen plenty of people take other people's code and claim it's their own, and that could happen on Mars ("Check out my super-awesome new menu code! I didn't get it from the unity wiki, honest!")
 
Would a world designer give out every asset (s)he built for it without even knowing if it will be seen in game, and with no guarantee that it won't be used by other people without credit? I doubt it. Whilst I know up-and-coming hackers (I mean people who just recombine others' code, rather than writing their own) would dearly like access to every project that gets suggested for Mars, I find the idea wrong. What if the programmer wants to use it elsewhere, if it doesn't get in?
 

So, if we'd have to publicly display our source code to everyone before approval, I won't participate. Simple.
 
(Sorry for ranting.)
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 13,880v
Posted 2013/04/09 - 18:24 GMT
Awesome guys keep ignoring unanswered comments.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
23 hours - 2,065v
Posted 2013/04/11 - 6:53 GMT
@Apophis: From my experience with Objective C, which is highly object oriented, it is quite possible to change one bit of code without modifying another bit.  It's not like every change flyclub makes completley redefines what objects have what properties and stuff like that.  We would leave the main stuff to flyclub, but other people could write stuff like water shaders, new kinds of lasers, small new features for worlds.  As long as it isn't too ground breaking, it will work.
 
@ACE: I can understand your wanting to keep your source code to yourself.  For a closed-source project, at least.  The big question, I think, is: "Should Mars Explorer be developed mainly by Flyclub and specially chosen others, or should it become a fully open-source project with submissions from whoever wants to help?"
 
Also, for world judges, requiring multiple judges would be a fairly simple change.  Maybe 3 judges and the majority vote wins?  As for world plagurism, the judges would be chosen by the moderators out of the list of productive members (probably use the skype list as a starting place for the candidates list).  The judges would be trusted members.  If a judge plagurizes, heavy punishments would ensue.  (But I'm pretty sure we can get plenty of honest judges for this.)
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
4 days - 9,791v
Posted 2013/04/11 - 16:34 GMT
1) Reread what Apophis said. It was about BUGS not interconnectibility. Bug-whacking is difficult, especially in others' (possibly completely obscurely written) code. Also, could you explain the point of writing little, pointless add-ons for Mars, please? I'm sorry, I'll continue to work on larger, more beneficial stuff. If you feel inclined to spend your time writing pretty laser effects... well, it's your life.
 
2) Reread what I said. I said I'm not willing to share the code until I know it's going in the project. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask this. Until it's in the project, I am under no obligation to be open-source, and having spent over 200 hours on some code that could theoretically end up in Mars, I'm not going to be. As I also said before, if I have to share my submissions with the world before I even know if they're going to be in the project (as you suggested) then I'm out. If it's only a few trusted people, or even just 'team' members, I'd be OK with that. I'm not the kind of person who wastes their life making complex code for nothing, and if you want that kind of free code, here's a link to the unity wiki for you.
 
As for your question - my personal view is that it should be a team.
You said 'fully open-source'... well 'open source' means sharing the source code. It does NOT mean that anyone and everyone can submit code. I have seen a large amount of code in my time (dad teaches it at a university, sometimes, and he shows me the assignment projects) and a large amount of it is badly written, unclear, overcomplicated, or just plain stupid. I'm not claiming that mine isn't, but mars is not the place to put one's first ever, mostly hacked scripts.
 
Now, I must say now, two things to advise for your future comments:
One, know what a term means BEFORE using it. (and to help... Open Source - note how for a project to be open source it does not have to accept the entire community's work.)
Two, to read and reread comments you're replying to. I wasted a lot of time repeating what I and Apophis said.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
23 hours - 2,065v
Posted 2013/04/17 - 1:39 GMT
Yeah im sorry about that last post -_-
 
You're right, the code submissions would be pretty stupid, especially with what you said about minor add-ons and bad code.  Sometimes when I have a weird bug in my app, it will turn out to be some really badly done code that I wrote before I new any better XD
» Reply to Comment
Re: Unity 4 Pro- A License for All of Mars
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2013/04/11 - 7:23 GMT
Greetings everyone,
 
 
I wanted to make this comment to let you all know that I am still here, listening to your ideas, and creating a plan for the future of Mars Explorer. I'm going to make a thread soon addressing these things. Thank you to everyone who keeps this community alive! As always, I am available through PM if anyone wishes to contact me.
 
 
Sincerely,
 
 
Mod Eric, Mars Explorer Co-developer


GenTime: 0.034 seconds

Site Design and Graphics Copyright 2002 - 2019 by Aubrey
Use of this site constitutes agreement to our » Legal Stuff