Home > Carbon Combat > Content > Discussion: Dear Mods of CC
Dear Mods of CC
16 Comments - 36687 Views
CC ethics/policies/rules
Submitted By lagging on 12/05/14
Carbon Combat, lagging, Discussions 
This Discussion originally posted in the "Carbon Combat" Group

Hey all!
 
in order to expose the problem i'm seeing, i'll need to first allaw you to follow my reasoning.
 
  • Today i had 10 minutes to play(than i needed to leave irl). Played for about 9 minutes on a server hosted by BrendanP , map:Chokepoint, the map was pretty full(over 14 players), deathmatch.   Right before the end of the game, BrendanP evicts me, in my eyes for no reason(did say only "hi all" at the beginning of the game, didnt' camp anyone, i even died once, had possibly around 10 kills at that point). I relogged onto the server to say that "i'd have reported this, as evicting is meant (at least in my eyes) for disciplinary purposes and not to taunt one's frustration for being a weak player". As a response, he called me a noob, while evicting me twice more before i'd manage to finsh typing the sentence above (in fact i dont' remember the exact wording i used, but i can assure i wasnt' offensive)

  • In Zangstawill's discussion "I get annoyed"  (http://forum.carbontechsoftware.com/view-11996 ) Killerdudeposted:
    No, no, no, lol. Even now as a forum moderator of the Mars Explorer forum, I never supported in-game moderating for Mars or CC. I do not like the idea of moderators having power over people's games–that should be up to the hosts. Zangstawill could have easily left the game or ignored the person to solve the problem. Only the host should have a mute/perma-mute/ban button in their games. If the host didn't care, why should someone else (moderators) decide what goes on in somebody else's server?
     .................
    Do you guys see where I'm going with this?
  • In my discussion "how about a guild/team/clan system" ( http://forum.carbontechsoftware.com/view-12081  )  the major problem seems to be that (due to previous experiences on MarsExplorer) everyone is afraid of an all out war between guilds, as if it were something inevitable.
Now connect these dots, and what you get is the problem of a system in which you get the rule "i can do everything i want, and potentially get away with it, unless there is a mod online on the server where i'm playing."

This mindframe concearns me- just try moving it into r.l. to see if it works (i can do everything as long as i'm not caught) and - of course on a bigger scale- that's where corruption, tax evasion etc starts.
  • Is evicting meant for disciplinary purposes? is there no punishement for the misuse of evicting? it got me really frustrated today seen i didn't have time for another match.
  • Is it really ok that moderators don't take any responsability in moderating games? (i'm addressing killerdude's comment here);  in my opinion Moderators are called like that because they moderate, the question isn't "why should they- if the host didn't bother" as killerdude's put it, the question is "why shouldn't they". The fact that a server is hosted by a player(host) is of a technical matter; whoever plays CC (including the host) is subdued to a generally acknowledged autority of CCMods over whatever is being said and done that eludes the gaming action(shooting, evading, flying, moving your car/humanoid..... etc ... etc)
  • I'm on a hunch here, but is maybe (this is a hypothesis) the fact that there is no moderation over people's behaviour ingame the reason why "club wars" were so devastating for MarsExplorer? Take my experience today with BrendanP - I coudl easilly start a retaliation cycle. Take Zangsta's case, it could have happened there as well. You dont' even need guilds or clubs to bring in devastation.
I have a proposition for a possible implementation concearning this (i'm hoping mods by now won't be hating me too badly), i find it very simple and it should be doable:
 
Every match hosted by a server has a combat log + chat log that unfolds on the top left side of the screen. From there it's pretty easy to spot any misbehaviour that isn't strictly within the gameplay actions. IF that woudl be streamed as text to all the clients connected to a host, it could be saved as a plain text file starting when you log on a host/server, and being closed when you log off a server(creating more small files, each named with hour+date+hostname in a folder of choice of the user).
Any part of that would be easilly sent via pm to the mods, who then could take action as they would see fit(a screen capture can capture only that much... if i have been evicted, i coudl send you a picture of the writing "you have been evicted by the server" but what coudl you make of it?)
 
Hope this can help and ;) don't hate me for the potential extra work

» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
3 days - 13,589v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 0:37 GMT
Hello lagging,
 
Let me make the obvious joke to get it out of the way; maybe he evicted you because you were... lagging!  *Ba-da-tss*
 
Ok, now to your post,
The mods in-game powers are pretty much limited to [mod] and always having evict power. 
 
Your idea of a chat log MAY be difficult to implement, though I would be more then happy to use it.  A problem I see though is that the only persona who can ban someone is, at the moment, CarbonTech.  I am speaking only for myself, but I would like to have more duties in-game.  Right now all I can do is, as I said above, evict.  If makes the [mods] look weak and powerless because, well quite truthfully, they are...
 
KillerDude came from Marsxplr (or Mars Explorer, both are the same game.  like CC or Carbon Combat) where the community is less lovable of their mods, I have seen it.  I came from Runescape (laugh if you must) and Last Chaos, where the Mods were if not loved, at least tolerated and obeyed.  I am for in-game moderation. 
 
I think that the idea that you proposed will work once [Mods] get more powers and the banning and reprimanding doesn't only last on CaronTech's shoulders.  For now all [Mods] can do is send them a PM saying "Don't do that again"
 
These are my thoughts as a [mod],
Nattyfrank
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 day - 5,354v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 0:57 GMT
Evicting isn't only for disciplinary measures.
In school, I had the BEST teacher there was. We'd never do any work. Our school had Macs and we'd all use them all day. That's how I found Marsxplr and me and my freinds would play and evict people from our servers since we wanted to be alone.
Also I met BrendanP in the same server and killed him so much especially when he was typing and he never evicted me.
He's the host, his server, he can do whatever he wants. You don't like? Host. He's like rage quiting but keeping his credits. Noob (BrendanP, not lagging).
Nvm...
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 1:14 GMT
My viewpoint of this matter has nothing to do with my experience with moderators. I too have played Runescape and other games with moderators.
 
I just see a problem with having a player hosting his own server and having someone else with power dictate.
 
If this were like Runescape, then I would be just fine with moderators having more powers. The problem is, it isn't. It's like having somebody come into your home, telling you who can and can't behave certain ways.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
12 hours - 3,932v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 1:32 GMT
Thanks all for your replies :)
 
 
Killerdude, in my view:
It's like having somebody coming into your house and telling you that is still unpolite to disturb the neighbours at late hours.
Even if it's your own home -society(CC) rules apply none the less. Exaggerating now: you cant' commit murder at your home even if it's still your home. Society rules apply.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 1:36 GMT
Murder? The worst you can get is eviction, which is similar to kicking someone out of your house. You have every right to do that.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 day - 5,354v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 2:01 GMT
Lagging, what if I put it like this.
I'm the landlord. I make lots of loud noise every night. You are a tenant and complain to me. I don't care and continue to make noise. It's my house. I can legally do whatever I want as long as neighbors don't complain (which they won't). You can't evict me since you're just a tenant and I am the landlord.
 
Landlord=Host
Tenant=Anyone other than host or mod
House=Server
Neighbor=Mods
 
Think of it like that lagging. Again, his server.
 
A landlord can and will evict you if you violate the terms you guys agree on.
Think of of annoying him and/or killing him many times as the term you're violating. Therefor he has every right to evict you. I don't see a law stating that I cannot evict someone in Carbon Combat that annoys me. :P
 
Nvm... I though servers were hosted on your computer but since they're on Photons servers, I agree with lagging.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
12 hours - 3,932v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 6:47 GMT
Tropaflight, Killerdude,
 
wouldn't that be the landlord abusing of his power?
--- the murder example was a weak argument, exaggerated, just to prove the point that society rules still apply. You can commit abuse even in your home, and have the police knock at your door. it's a reality.
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Re: Dear Mods of CC
12 hours - 3,932v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 6:46 GMT
(comment deleted for multiple posting due to bad connection)
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Re: Dear Mods of CC
12 hours - 3,932v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 6:48 GMT
bad connection, multiple posts... srry, delete it if you can please
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Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 day - 3,651v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 2:36 GMT
Eh, sad truth. All I can really think of to solve this problem is chat logs and mod powers. I'm all for chat logs, and if we put that in we can also put in features like "report player". Though, if mods are given more power then I suggest they also be able to issue some type of warning to players even if they don't meet face-to-face, such as a PM. I think we should be able to put some mod guidelines into the game so players are warned; something like showing people jail to prevent them from doing crimes.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 2:40 GMT
A log to monitor unscrupulous behavior sounds fine, but I oppose giving a moderator host powers in other people's games.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
12 hours - 3,932v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 6:45 GMT
FatCatAttack,
 
your response made me think about an alternative  that could technically simplify the implementation of a reporting system, in relation to the one i was suggesting.
 
If a "Report player" feature was implemented within the game, than the text file with the logs coudl be created in real time ONLY on the host's computer, and they would be sent automatically to mods if anyody was to click on "report player".
 
In that case, also the misuse of reporting should be punishable.
 
it's just a tchnical difference- the result is the same(mods get the logs), the data transferred between host and clients would be lower, client side and host side woudl work differently.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
2 days - 6,902v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 8:41 GMT
"Hosts" of servers will no longer have eviction privileges as servers are really no longer player hosted (everything is run off of the Photon dedicated servers). I'll look into making some sort of player banning system for the moderators which should be an effective deterrent for disruptive players. A report system will have to wait until I integrate a messaging method, however.
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2012/05/15 - 1:14 GMT
In that case, I'm for moderators having that power. (I did not know that the servers are hosted elsewhere, so if the "host" won't have powers, then the moderators should.)
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
12 hours - 3,932v
Posted 2012/05/14 - 9:03 GMT
CT :)
thanks for reading and taking it in consideration :)
» Reply to Comment
Re: Dear Mods of CC
3 days - 13,589v
Posted 2012/05/18 - 0:02 GMT
If the file was to be saved as a .txt file (plain text) it would have it be un-editable. 
 
EX:
 
I am playing with Player X, he kicks my rear end in a battle, so I get the log and I "modify" the text file and add in some "Choice" exchanges between Him and I.  I have effectively gotten someone banned because they are better then I am.
 
I realize that this is an unlikely case, but it could happen.
 
Nattyfrank


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