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New Creator - A Painful Experience
9 Comments - 16769 Views
It's almost as if we've rolled back a few months!
Submitted By Totoro on 12/04/07
Carbon Combat, Totoro, Discussions 
This Discussion originally posted in the "Carbon Combat" Group

Hello all,
Today I was trying to update a project of mine in the CC world creator. As it contains a very large custom mesh and only a few objects, I wanted to start from scratch and potentially add a terrain. You may know this map as Chokepoint X, and although that's just a temporary name, it does give you an idea of the map's appearance. This is why you will not be seeing an update to that map for a while yet.
So I went to the creator, loaded the mesh (it took me a minute to see it had loaded as there is no confirmation dialog) and began to place the spawn points. It was then I remembered about all the great changes made to the controls, including camera movement and object placement. Excited, I tried dragging the blue car and moving my camera to the blue spawn location. No such luck. The actual movement of the camera is no longer constrained to the horizontal plane of movement, so I quickly punched through the ground when trying to move sideways. Then, I tried moving with option held down (camera free rotate) but all that did was put the camera really close to the car. After that, I zoomed out a bunch and tried to use the movement handles - believe me when I say it's hard to click 1 pixel on a 1680x1050 screen. 
After wrestling with that and finally getting both spawn points in the correct location, I also found that it is impossible to edit top-down. Regular WASD movement will move the camera (relative to normal directions) up-down, and left right. That means I can move side-to-side and zoom in/out, but not move top to bottom. Command held down does the SAME thing. Option rotates the camera - not exactly conducive to top-down editing. Therefore, it is extremely hard to place objects in the correct location.
Then I went to place pickups at each end of the map. I right clicked to place health pickups, and used the handles to put them in the proper location. Yay, I could do that in 5 minutes! Then I went to place the invis pickup at the center of the map. Right clicked. The thing appeared way off from where I needed it. Fine, I'll use the handles. Sorry, no! I missed the handle by a matter of pixels, and whoops! The entire map mesh moves! All of my placement is now screwed up. Quickly I enter the undo command, Command-Z. Nope, Chuck Testa! The camera moves with command down for some reason, and the undo command (which worked earlier) does nothing. Then I try to manually re-place my custom mesh. Oh, whoops! The darn thing somehow rotated out of position, too.
Ok, so I zoom out to rotate the mesh to the correct place. The controls and handles are way to small to even click. I zoom in. I can't see any references to where I'm supposed to move/rotate this thing to. I quit and give up.
The new creator has terrible controls making it difficult/impossible to use.
  • Camera movement is fine, up until you need to actually use the creator.
  • Controls are way to difficult to see, use, and click on.
  • Proper object movement and positioning is a major challenge, even for the smallest jobs.
  • Does undo even work?
  • Basically it's broken

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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
1 day - 3,651v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 15:09 GMT
We need a rant forum for the map editor. I've tried making some new maps with the new features, and the process went like this:
1st attempt: No idea what is going on. By the time I figure out what I'm doing I can't find my cars (reset was not yet implimented). Quit.
2nd attempt: I tap the WASD buttons to move around, as slow as I can (not very slow actually). I try to figure out how to use terrain and after 10 minutes it finnally starts raising. A make a wall, but after I expirement with the cursor size options the map starts looking rather bad. I try and salvage it by making a large mesa to battle on by I end up flying into the wall and go under. I try and reset but I am still underneith the terrain. Quit.
3rd attempt. Rather doubtful at this point, I decide just to make a simple map, an empty airstrip. I start by making terrain walls around the map, but trying to box in the map at a decent hill height takes a good half-hour due to how slow terrain rises. I add some small bumps from terrain rises throughout the map to give it a natural look but the map now is extremely hard to place objects in. Not wanting to give up on my 30 minutes I try to put in a long thin block to represent a airstrip but it unfortinetly can't go as thin as it could so I end up raising the terrain around the airstrip in hopes of making it look better. I now try and put some pre-made objects on the strip so the map isn't very empty however I accidently click the object behind it and now it is having a seizure as I rotate around it, trying to move it back into place. Eventually the block goes so far that I can no longer grab it with my cursor. Quit, give up on creator.
Can we get some more people to try and make some maps in the World Creator? I realize not everyone uses it and doesn't realize how much it sucks. At this point the new scaling/rotating can go away, I just want it to got back to the way it was.
Oh and before you argue CarbonTech, I highly doubt anyone who makes good maps tries to make them as fast as possible.
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
3 days - 13,589v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 15:37 GMT
I think I have a response to this;
In order for the new creator to be welcomed with opened arms, instructions need to be given.  When I first started to use Unity and Blender (even Sketch-up to an extent) I was absolutely lost on how to do stuff.  Thus begun my epic search of information on how to use those platforms.  This worked because many many many people use these programs and they have been around for a while, therefor there is documentation of it.  With the brand-new creator, there is no such documentation.  the only person who knows how to use it is CarbonTech himself.  He needs to share this information.  I have used the creator a few times, but have always given up because I have no clue how to use the controls.  If the instructions were given out (like they are for the rest of the game on Kongregate) then the community SHOULD welcome this change.
Edit for content and spelling.
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
2 days - 6,069v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 21:59 GMT
Here are the controls for the new World Creator:
[Alt] + [Move Mouse] = Rotate Camera
[Command] OR [Control] + [Move Mouse] = Pan Camera
[W] = Move Forward
[A] = Move Left
[S] = Move Backwards
[D] = Move Right
[Backspace] = Delete Selected Object
[X] = Duplicate Selected Object
[G] = Toggle Grid Snapping
[M] = Open Creator Menu
[Right Click] = Spawn Objects
[Mod] Apophis
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
3 days - 13,589v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 22:16 GMT
Thank you Apophis,
I think I died a little inside just seeing the mass amount of controls.  And also I think that this should be put ingame, not everyone checks the forums.
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
1 day - 5,977v
Posted 2012/04/08 - 1:12 GMT
What exactly is the "G" key for... I don't know what it does... O_o
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
1 day - 5,977v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 15:51 GMT
That would help... I turned it on, and BAM! I was hit in the head with the confused rock...
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
1 day - 3,651v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 17:08 GMT
I can tell you that I can use what creator there is, but there are a lot of problems even with full instructions. Besides, if the Creator is becoming complicated so that it can no longer be picked up and worked with it is a problem in itself.
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
1 week - 20,817v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 20:29 GMT
I made that map for the Soldier...
There are only two problem's I found, A) The world didn't load for 5 minutes , B) Sometimes the camera would get stuck inside a hill. 
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Re: New Creator - A Painful Experience
1 week - 32,767v
Posted 2012/04/07 - 22:30 GMT
You can get out of a hill by resetting (r) or panning your camera (command).
There are no buttons in this terrain editor, so it's a bit more tricky to get used to at first. Just play with it until everything is second nature–then go complaining or ranting on the forum :) I still find it phenomenal that CarbonTech could make that terrain editor :O

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